Ep. 27: Imogo to disrupt textile dyeing industry Podcast

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Ep. 27: Imogo to disrupt textile dyeing industry

In this episode of The WTiN Podcast, we talk to Per Stenflo, one of the founding partners of Imogo. The company specialises in sustainable production processes, primarily in the textile dyeing industry.

Jessica Owen
Hello. My name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTIN, and this is the WTIN podcast. For this series, I'll be talking to startups and other new brands across the textile and apparel industry, from sustainable swimsuits to jackets inspired by NASA technology. We talk about products the highs and lows of starting a business, and advice for others interested in entering this space. This week, I am joined by Per Stenflo, who is a founding partner of Imogo, a company that is aiming to transform textile dyeing. Pear talks about the brand's products and technology, the savings that can be made environmentally and financially and being a part of the now virtual fashion for good accelerator program. Hello and good morning, and welcome to the WTIN podcast. Thank you very much for joining me today. So I'd like to talk about Imogo and your products, but before we do that, I think it would be great to know a bit more about yourself. So tell me about yourself and your background.

Per Stenflo
Yes, yes. Thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure talking to you this morning. So well, a little bit short about me. I mean, professionally, I've been working with technology and capital equipment sales for many years, mostly within the printing industry, but the last six years in the textile industry, most of the time, I've been working in large organizations. Some years ago, I started to get fed up with all the internal politics and the not so agile side of large corporations. So that's when I started to realize I have to do something else. I was pushing 50 and well, I said it's now or never. So that's when I decided to try my wings as an entrepreneur. And here I am,

Jessica Owen
right? And so you founded Imogo then back in 2018 with Joachim wellender, I think, I think that's your co founder. So how did you two meet, and what was the inspiration behind setting up this company, apart from just wanting to try a bit of entrepreneurship,

Per Stenflo
Joachim and I worked together for more than 10 years. So we knew each other very well. We knew each other's strengths and weaknesses, and we were comfortable working together, the thing is completely independent of each other. We came to the same conclusion that was time to time for change. So my idea was actually to go back to consulting, which I did many years ago, and Joachim had a job offer that sounded a bit interesting. So we both came to the conclusion that quitting our jobs and what happened after that was a bit strange, because apparently word spread about us leaving, and we got independently contacted by people that wanted to have our help in commercializing a new idea from the Swedish School of textiles. So we both jumped on that offer and haven't regretted it.

Jessica Owen
So that offer, then was to start emogo, yeah,

Per Stenflo
yeah, yeah, it was, it was to start a Mogo, and to that is the platform we've used to to commercialize

Jessica Owen
this idea. Okay, right? I'm with you now. So let's talk about a mo go, then into your products. I think the company seems to be, from what I've read on your website, you're trying to find a bit more of a sustainable solution to textile printing and dying. So tell me a bit about yourselves then. Well, that's

Per Stenflo
absolutely right. I mean, it's all around sustainable textile dyeing, and we, we call our concept digital dying, and we've based it on a spray application technology, something that we have a lot of experience on from the past, and a technology that's been widely available in other industries for for decades, actually, But it some, for some reason, haven't really caught on in the textile industry. We decided to, with our knowledge about this and our our experience from running businesses and and running international sales to use that to to. Build in Mogo around this new innovation and combine that so it's all based on spray with it, which is high frequency electrical valves. And each valve has a dedicated high precision nozzle, which we use in open to in in order to apply a very even amount of dye at a lot less with a lot less water than what is used in traditional methods.

Jessica Owen
Before we talk about your products, then I just want to ask, So, do you still work with the team who originally developed this idea?

Per Stenflo
Well, yes, we have actually employed Eleanor, who is the innovator behind the technology. So she's a part owner in a Moga as well, and and she's very deeply involved, and she runs our lab up in in Burroughs, outside of Gothenburg in Sweden. So that's where a lot of the R and D work is going on,

Jessica Owen
right? So your products, then, I think you've got three or four in total, and one of them is called the flex Dyer. And I think this is your most flexible and versatile dyeing system. So do you mind just telling me a bit more about this and how it works, please?

Per Stenflo
Yeah, as I mentioned, it's it's Spray Technology, and the heart of it is the spray applicator unit. So it's a reel to reel solution. So load a large reel of textile or a small reel and run it through the applicator. After that, there's a fixation step, which is done in an outer clave, a low energy outclave, and the spray is is really the key to achieving the savings that we that we look for with the traditional methods of dying, all requires vast amounts of water in different types of bath or tanks, whereas we only use exactly that the amount of water necessary for carrying the dye stuff to the fabric, which is many times just a fraction of what is used in traditional methods. That also means that much of the chemistry that is used in the dyeing is based on the amount of water used. That means that, since we use so much less water, we also use dramatically less chemistry. And the same goes for the energy. Since we have a low energy fixation step, we also use a lot less energy, and this is connected also, again, to the water, because we have so much less water that needs to be heated, the energy savings are basically completely related to the amount of water used traditional methods, lot of water that needs to be heated, often up to a high temperatures and big pumps pumping around the water, whereas, in our case, that's that's not the way we do it.

Jessica Owen
Okay? And so you've got another product then as well, called the dye Max. Does that somehow work in conjunction with the flex dye? Or how does this one work? 

Per Stenflo
Well, you could say, basically the DYMAX is the same spray applicator as we use in the flex dire. It's just that we use. So we've configured it to be implemented in existing lines, so it could be put in any, basically any continuous line together with a stenter or drying Tower, or it could be used also for cold spray batch dying for for cotton fibers. So it's the same thing, but in a different configuration, right?

Jessica Owen
Okay? And another product that you've got is called the mini max, and I think this works with the other two products. So again, if you could just explain to me how this sort of fits into everything, that'd be great. 

Per Stenflo
Yeah, the mini max is, is one, one important step in the whole process. I mean, today there's in current traditional technologies, there's a lot of toning of dye batches that haven't really been correctly done. So that takes a lot of time and a lot of extra resources. So mini max is actually our. Way of reducing the risk of having to tone the dye batch afterwards. So we do laboratory settings of all the recipes and all the mixtures and the application volumes. We do that offline in the lab, and then we take the data from the minimax loaded into the DYMAX of flex dire, and we replicate what we have done in the laboratory in the large machine, which takes away both the risk, or minimizes the risk of having to tone the batch afterwards, and it frees up the machine. You don't have to spend expensive machine time to setting all the parameters. That's done offline, you'd load the parameters, and then you're up and running. So it's a way of having a more efficient process and more predictable process,

Jessica Owen
right? And so you don't just have dyeing solutions either. You also have a machine called the F max, and I think this deals with textile finishing. So how does this one work? 

Per Stenflo
Well, the F max is is also related to the other the other products, it's the F max is based on the same concept as the dye Max, the same Spray Technology, basically the same layout of the machine. What we've done is to reduce a little bit on the specifications of it, the demands on the finishing side are generally lower than on on a on a dying application, which means that a dye Max would be over SPECT for a finishing application. To be honest. This is not entirely true, because there are, there are finishing applications that are very demanding as well, but then we can adopt the F max configuration to also meet those criteria and still have a lower price than for the DYMAX.

Jessica Owen
Okay? And I also want to ask, how big are these machines? Because obviously, I've seen them online, but I mean, you can't quite appreciate the scale of them. So are they quite small and snug, or are they much bigger machines? 

Per Stenflo
Now they're quite compact, actually. I mean, a real stand is a real stand. It'll take its its space anyway. So, so I mean, that takes what space it needs, but then the actual spray applicator is about two meters high, and it requires about two meters in length. So, and then you have the width of the machine, is the fabric width plus approximately a meter. So it's quite compact, and it's that also that's a everything into one unit. So in an existing line with a pattern, you could simply remove the pattern and replace it with our DYMAX or F max, and with a very little modifications of the complete line. So it's, it's quite compact if you look at only the spray applicator.

Jessica Owen
Okay. Now, we've already mentioned that the company's vision is to sort of be a bit more sustainable, and you're making a lot of water and energy savings. But, I mean, can you put that into figures at all? I mean, how big are the savings? Are we talking about? Well,

Per Stenflo
there's a lot of savings on the spray technology. I mentioned the water, the chemistry and the energy, and if you look at that alone, and we use as a standard, we compare to a best practice jet dying process, which is a widely used and and common process, and probably one of the processes that has been mostly developed over the years, over the last decades, for for, for dying, but still with not a lot has happened there. So when we compare that, we see that best practice get dying somewhere with a water ratio of of the one to five, one kilo fabric to five liters of water or dye dispersion, and where we come down to a figure of somewhere between a half liter to one liter of the water to each kilo of fabric. And. This means that we have an enormous savings on the water. Trying to translate that over to to money and to making it on econ economical terms, we see that that would mean that we have a payback on the machine of somewhere between one and two years, if you count only the input material, such as the water, the energy and and chemistry.

Jessica Owen
I mean, that's quite an incentive alone, isn't it really just making it a bit more economically friendly. So, yeah, so I guess because you're quite sustainable and you've got the sort of economic benefits as well. Have you had quite a lot of interest in your company since you've been around?

Per Stenflo
Yeah, we've seen an enormous amount of interest. We actually, when we started turning a little bit towards the market here about a year ago, the interest was so big that we actually had to pull back from, from doing the marketing. Our email boxes in boxes were were full of emails and were actually we ran the risk of having to focus more on that than on the development of the system, which wasn't right at that time. So we pulled off a little bit on that, but still we we are have a lot of interest, both from producers and brands, and looking at that, we noticed there's a big difference in in how the brands and the producers view the system and what is really triggering them for their interest, the brands are all about the environmental savings, which is natural for them. It's important in their marketing and in their relations to their customers, whereas the producers, they look at the productivity improvements that can be done, the actual the savings on the process, but also the fast changeovers that are possible, the the higher productivity in terms of of the shorter running times for A batch, etc. So that's a bit interesting to see.

Jessica Owen
I mean, it sounds like you've been very successful already and and actually, you've only been around a couple of years, and you seem to have achieved so much. So, for example, I think I read that you are one of the 15 finalists of the 2020 global change award. You've also been accepted onto this year's fashion for good accelerator program, and you've you've actually also spoken at our own innovate Textile and Apparel event. So I mean, how does it feel to have come so far in such a short time?

Per Stenflo
It's obviously exciting to have that type of interest in what you're doing and what's what I do, I choose to view it as proof of that the industry is set on change. Very little has happened with textile dyeing on the machine side, for a long time, investments have been relatively low because what has been available has only been more of the same. A 5% saving on water or energy can be blown up as a big news at ITMA or other industry events, but it's really not a revolution. So I think the industry is ready to phase out the old when the right technology is available. And yeah, we intend to have that technology.

Jessica Owen
And so just going back to this fashion for good accelerator program, I think that's going on at the moment. So how are you finding tax obviously, I think with Coronavirus, that's all happening to be done virtually, yeah. I

Per Stenflo
mean, that's a little bit of a Yeah, it would have been a lot more fun, and if it was face to face meetings with all the other innovators and all the mentors within the fashion for good. But fashion for Good is a great organization, and they've organized it very well. This being the first virtual accelerator program, we still hope to be able to meet later on this year for some of the final events there. But the fashion for good. They have really stepped up and done this very good. They have a fantastic network of partners and mentors tied to the organization that we have a lot of interaction with, and I presented to to one of the large. The partners today, just before our call, and which was very interesting.

Jessica Owen
So obviously, I just mentioned Coronavirus there, and at the time of recording this, it's still, well, it's still definitely going on in the UK, at least. So has this impacted your business at all and and do you think maybe the whole situation will drive people even further to sort of adopt more sustainable solutions like yours?

Per Stenflo
So far, we haven't been influenced so much by by the Coronavirus. We're in a pretty introvert state, still with a lot of focus being on the process and the machine and getting it ready to launch to the market. So so far, it hasn't influenced us. A big question is how travel bans, how long they will remain, and also what the influence on the demand for new technology and new disruptive technology on the market will be afterwards. That's something that we don't really know. We hope, and we think that it will be a smooth transition afterwards, and that we will, we will maintain the interest from from the market, and that there will be investment opportunities for for new equipment, but we'll just have to live and see. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
exactly. It's just this sort of waiting game at the moment. So then obviously, being a startup company or any business for that matter, really, you must have had some bumps along the way. So what have been the sort of main challenges that you've had to overcome? 

Per Stenflo
Well, surprisingly, we haven't had all that much big challenges. We've obviously had some some technical challenges that we've had to work around and have to to work out, but that has been done very smoothly, and it's gone well. So we have the solution working. The big challenge of being small and new is, is the market that we're addressing is a global market with multinational companies, and being a small company dealing with these giants is always going to be a challenge. We don't have the all the resources at hand that they sometimes expect. But by just explaining our situation and and telling them where we are and where we are, in the process being transparent towards them, it has, it has normally, generally worked out very well, and we've ended up having good, good dialogs and and finding ways of working working together.

Jessica Owen
So have you actually managed to sell any of your machines yet, and are they up and running in these among these brands, and are there any brands that we know of that are now using them, that you're able to talk about?

Per Stenflo
No, we are. Actually, we're launching the first product to market here after summer, and that's going to be the F max. So the F max is first out, and that will then, relatively shortly later, be followed by the DYMAX, and then during the course of the next year, the full flex die line will be be released to market. So it's we're in a pre market stage, and that's how we work. Also with with the clients where we're discussing with that they send us samples for us to do laboratory tests on, and for them, them to evaluate and do their testing on, on the on the results for rub fastness, so and color evenness and all of that. And then the next stage is that they, they come to our showroom, where we have the complete line set up, and we can run industrial scale tests for them. And we had a few of those scheduled here for April with with large companies, but unfortunately, the travel bans postponed that, so we're looking to do that as soon as people can start traveling and visiting us again,

Jessica Owen
right? Okay, I see. And so I've only got a few more questions per and so the first one of which the company is still a startup. But I mean, what would be your ultimate goal moving forward? Like, what. Point. Could you sit back and think, Okay, I think we've made it now. 

Per Stenflo
I mean, I'm not going to be shy with this. We aim to disrupt the textile dyeing industry. That's our target. And what we want to achieve is to have the sustainable spray dying to be the new standard in the market so but I don't have any illusions of that going smoothly and very quickly. I have a extended goal then,

Jessica Owen
okay, and finally, then, what would your advice be to anyone hoping to launch a new product or company in the textile industry at this time.

Per Stenflo
Well, I mean, the industry is looking for sustainability and for productivity. So if you have a solution that improves the sustainability profile of the industry and can improve productivity, then the interest in the market and the potential is huge. What I would like to advice I'd give is build a network. Focus on getting a network where you as a small startup, you can't possibly have all the resources and all the knowledge in house. You have to build a network with people that you trust, organizations that can you trust, and that can support you. That's we have found that very important. Another thing is obviously, to make sure to be well funded, because R and D and and launching new products is a costly business, and you have to have a money enough so you you can cover a reasonable amount of time and get to a stage where you have proven your concept before you at Some stage, will need to bring in external capital to to to accelerate the process of of the launch, and that's a little bit where we are now trying to look at how to finance the growth of our company, and whether To do that ourselves or by bringing in external finance, equity, to really get the acceleration of the process of going to market. 

Jessica Owen
Well, I think there's some really good points there, actually. I think I imagine all these things cost a lot more money than you might initially think and that point about sustainability as well. I think I spoke to someone recently, and they said, Anyone at the moment like sustainability should just go hand in hand with whatever you're developing, because that's hopefully the way the industry and many other industries around the world are heading. So I think there's some really, really good points there. So, yeah, I think, Well, I think that's everything per that I wanted to ask you today. I mean, it's been great to listen to your products, and hopefully the launch of those products that goes well for you in the next few months. So thank you again for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Per Stenflo
Well, thank you. Jess, it's all my pleasure, and anytime just give me a call.