Ep. 46: Could innovative manufacturing be the key to recovery? Ankit Podcast

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Ep. 46: Could innovative manufacturing be the key to recovery?

In this episode of The WTiN Podcast, we talk to Chris White who is the director of Industrial Policy and Insight Centre at The Manufacturing Technology Centre (The MTC).

Jessica Owen
Hello. My name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTiN, and this is the WTiN podcast, the fourth industrial revolution is underway, and the world of textile and apparel is just one industry that is benefiting from new and innovative technologies. With this in mind, for this series, I'll be talking to companies across the textile apparel landscape about their new technologies, the benefits of digitalization, and the advice that they'd give to others who are trying to implement such solutions. This week, I am joined by Chris White, who is the director of the industrial policy and insight center at the MTC. Chris talks about how the organization bridges the gap between academia and industry. His thoughts on recovery after COVID 19, and how he sees the UK becoming an innovative manufacturing country in future. Good afternoon, Chris. Thank you very much for coming on the show today. It's lovely to have you here. Well, not here, but from afar. Are you well? How are you?

Chris White
very good. No. Thank you for inviting me on. This is, this is a little bit of a different experience on a Thursday afternoon. Yeah.

Jessica Owen
Well, things cross. It's going to be a really interesting chat. So tell me about the Manufacturing Technology Center, or the MTC, as it's often called, and what your role is within the organization. Then,

Chris White
okay, I suppose, just a little bit about about me. I joined the MTC in July, so quite a few changes in terms of what was going on during the first wave of wave of the pandemic. I was working at King's College in London. So it was a, you know, moving moving up here, different roles, different employers. So as soon as I, I moved to MTC, I was seconded to Loughborough University, which is where I am the Director for the Industrial Policy Research Center, which is a new, new initiative set up between the university and the MTC. So with regards to to the MTC, which I've known for for a while, I my relationship started with the MTC when I was still a Member of Parliament for Warwick and Leamington. So the MTC is not geographically, very far away. My background before being a member of parliament was various roles, but not least working with mg rover, very good relationship with with the MTC to see what they were achieving and what they've achieved. In fact, I mean, only in the next well, last last month, it was the their their 10th anniversary, which you know, in that time they've achieved an amazing amount. They have something in the region of 100 members from zero start and now a million, 100 million pound turnover company, which in 10 years is effectively 100 months. So that's not not a bad rate of rate of growth. I'm something which a lot of organizations would be, would be very proud to to achieve. So a relationship has built up over time, delighted to work with them. And I think, you know, they're, they're very, very interesting facility. I mean, when I say facility, it doesn't really give them enough credit. It really is sort of, you know, on the on the corners of Coventry, it looks, looks very much like a sort of Camelot of engineering with, you know, the sort of quality of their equipment, training, their level of expertise, the relationships with, sort of the businesses that they have, you know, everything from additive manufacturing to robotics to to systems integration, very advanced in terms of what they they can actually provide to to their members and their and their customers. Okay,

Jessica Owen
interesting. Um, so going back then, you say they've been around for 10 years now, but why was the company founded. I mean, what do they do and what's their aim? Exactly?

Chris White
Well, they're one of the one of the region's catapult centers. And I think it to sort of the sort of purpose, the shorthand purpose would be to sort of bridge the gap between innovation something that. We've always been been very good at and production slash manufacturing, something we've always been also very good at. But the role of the MTC is to sort of help, help get that innovation into a place where, you know, we can see something being produced.

Jessica Owen
Okay, well, that's interesting. You say that actually, because when I was doing a bit of research, I read on the MTCs website that it is what you just said, trying to bridge the gap between academia and industry, and this is known as something called the Valley of Death. I mean, tell me more about this and the challenges here.

Chris White
Well, it is. I mean, that does sound like a quite a dramatic valley of death. What do I work for? I work for a place that, you know, it's, I think, I mean, it does really, what say, you know, we have been always, I mean, certainly, you know, the Midlands, the Midlands region has always been, you know, a great place for innovative ideas. We've always had a bit of a challenge, you know, in the sort of, you know, the ivory towers of our universities. I mean less, less so now, I mean the universities we've got in the in the Midlands, that the Loughborough is where I work, you know, the stuff that they do in terms of, you know, sports, tech, for example, through to, you know, Aston and to Birmingham that you know, really are exceptional in terms of and Nottingham as well, in terms of what they what they do for research and development. But where the MTC comes in is with its sort of assets, in terms of its equipment and in terms of its practical sort of applications of some of this research is, is taking that to the next, next level, which, you know, as I talk about, you know, in 10 years, what they've achieved, they're clearly very, very good at doing. And, you know, I think, I think the best way to describe it is, how do you term, sort of something which is quite, quite sort of an idea into something which is, is very practical, and something that people can see that that could be, you know, that could be manufactured. How it could be manufactured, how, you know, what would the the process is involved be, you know, helping existing industries, small and medium sized enterprises, to be, you know, to scale up and, you know, and pivot, or look at new markets, new products, new ways of working. But, you know, I'm sure we're going to perhaps come on to some of those in our in our discussion.

Jessica Owen
Well, definitely. I mean, you've already just outlined a couple of ways there in which you help businesses. And as you said, you sort of serve lots of industries, and I think I read that that includes engineering, automotive, defense and textiles, obviously, which is why we're here today. But what other ways in which do you help these industries. I mean, I think I saw that you can help them maximize supply chains, for example,

Chris White
yes, I think I really don't like the phrase of one stop shop, but I think it is a good example of of the the reality of, you know, if you go to to the MTC, it's not just about, you know, designing a product or working on, you know, its manufacture. It's how to help you through all the steps of that particular, particular journey. You know, we're, we're very, we're very much, you know, we recognize that you know people. You know management, for example, in in our SMEs is very much sleeves rolled up, getting on with the job, finding the orders. You know, doesn't necessarily have the time to, you know, work, you know, work on the business. Well, while these guys are very much working in the business, and I think that's where the MTC can really add value to its relationships with its with its customers.

Jessica Owen
And another way in which I read that you can help people out is, I mean, essentially you can, you guys will have that expertise on innovation that's out there, and you can help connect companies with that, and they can then adopt it and learn how to use it and see how it works for them. Is that, right?

Chris White
Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's a very good summary of of how the model works. It's, you know, I suppose that the downside is, is that this is a very attractive proposition. I mean, you know, it'd be, it'd be great to do so much more of this help, you know, many more businesses and you know whether it's the adoption of, you know, emerging technologies, whether it's better understanding of digitalization, whether it's being able to understand the benefits that robots could. Bring to to a workplace, you know, in those sometimes those aren't the solutions. They're part of the solutions. And I think it's how to give a bit of a helping hand and a bit of a guidance to understand what, what fits best with the, you know, with the with the challenge of the business in hand. And I

Jessica Owen
guess another thing that comes with companies adopting new sort of technologies and digitalization is that the skills are going to be quite different as well. So, I mean, do you also help people to train in new ways, Up skill and so on? I think one,

Chris White
one of the ways we're, you know, we're really proud. Is the our training center, where we you know that you look after and help progress. You know, large number of apprentices. But for you know, more than that is, it is, you know, I think this is a, is a challenge that you know, the wider manufacturing engineering sector does face in terms of, you know, re skilling up skilling. You know, businesses changing to other businesses, to different markets, different products. How are we going to re skill people? How are we going to make sure that businesses which perhaps have faced some decline through the last, you know, months with the sort of the COVID crisis. How are we going to make sure, you know, we've got, you know, gainful employment, sustainable employment. You know, highly high skilled workforce. You know, high skilled, high pay, sustainable jobs, which is, you know, I suppose that's, that's part of, you know, a goal anyway. I mean, it's a strategic goal, but it's also, you know, part of how we will play our role in in an economic recovery. Well,

Jessica Owen
that's interesting. You mentioned that actually, because, I think, I mean, I saw recently, there's been a bit of controversy around, I think it was a British government advert on TV, and it was, I think, were they looking at a ballet dancer and saying, you know, basically, hang up your ballet shoes. That industry has gone downhill. You're going to have to try something else, which is a very harsh view of things. I'm not sure everyone agreed with that, but you sort of get what they mean. And I guess with digitalization in the textile industry, in particular, COVID 19 I guess, has provided an opportunity for people to try something new and see what else is possible, I guess.

Chris White
Yeah, so sorry. I'm sort of smiling to myself, because I think that was as adverts go sort of to, sort of an impression of a ballet dancer to being I think it is suggesting that person might want to be a coder. I don't necessarily think that that would be the example I would use of as transition to put it mildly, but I can see you know where the sort of possibility from transitioning from making an aircraft wing to making a rotor blade for a renewable energy Providing wind turbine, that is more the transition that I would, that I can understand. And I think there's nothing you know that it is important to, you know, what we had over over the first sort of COVID wave was businesses, you know, they were put on, on on ice, whatever they were making, they switched to, you know, making PPE, personal protective equipment. That wasn't that, that wasn't what they planned to do. But they, you know, using innovation and our sort of, you know, natural ingenuity, businesses were very able to adapt and be agile in terms of, you know, what was going out the door. And I think that's you know, perhaps something that we you know how those models work, is something that we need to understand, understand better. I don't think that you know, you mentioned textiles. There's nothing wrong with continuing to be engaged in the textile sector. But how do we do this? How do we you know, how do we adopt, you know, different processes. What are the skills that are going to be needed to support those processes? You know, whether we're looking at, you know, modern materials, wearable technologies, etc, etc. It's not saying that we want to close a sector up by any stretch. Now, you know, I'm think we should be very proud of our textile sector and traditions and history that and heritage that that gives to the Midlands. But how we look at those? Industries we do need to to adapt to, you know, global competition, different processes and different technologies.

Jessica Owen
Yeah, definitely. So I just wanted to talk about now one of your case studies. I think this is probably the easiest way for listeners to sort of understand exactly how the MTC can help and what it does exactly. So sticking with textiles, I know that you've worked with a British cushion filling manufacturer called fiberline. I think so. Why did they come to you? What was their issue? Exactly?

Chris White
Well, I can to be, I mean, very, very clear, yeah. I mean, it's a very interesting in business. Interesting business. You know, they were doing some pioneering work in terms of synthetic fibers. And they were, as you say, the largest cushion manufacturer in the UK. But where, I think, I mean, they had a, they had a where their challenges lay is in terms of, you know, the sort of the factory, the basics, you know, the factory layout that they had made, the communication between, you know, different areas of the business and their inventory was, was quite a difficult thing to to do. You know where, you know, to be able to locate the product that the factory layout wasn't. You know, forgive me that I wasn't absolutely engaged. I wasn't engaged in this myself. But what I understand is, you know, the communication between what, where the where the inventory needed, and where the inventory was, was, was, was becoming a challenge. So where, what the MTC did. I mean, we've talked about, you know, automation and digitization and emerging technologies, but sometimes just going to the very steps of mapping out, you know, how the current technology works, to make sure that, you know, the processes that are involved in identifying what the orders were, that that sort of stuff, which is quite straightforward, you know, helping people to broaden their skill sets, you know, helping to, you know, accelerate the sort of order completion process is, is what a business needs to do to be able to succeed. These are the sort of, you know, the you know, whatever the Olympics were, when you know about the bike, and then, sort of, the tiny changes that you can make, which makes the bike, you know, world beating, world class. Similar with a with a factory. How do you improve the communications? How do you, sort of, how do you apply new technologies to existing processes in a way that everybody can be engaged. Everybody can understand, you know, what the purpose of this is, you know, to improve the business, to improve skills, to make, you know, the business sustainable. I think that's where you know, the the MTC came in. You know, they improved employee engagement. They brought in, you know, sort of, you know, to helped with multi skilling the workforce. And they improved the factory layout, which are, you know, basic ingredients to making sure that you have, you know, you are operational and and stay operational for the long term.

Jessica Owen
So, so what's the process then? Is it the case that fiber line come to the empty set, MTC, tell you they've got a problem, and then you send guys out there, have a look at the factory, how it runs, get a feel for it. Then you go back, come up with some ideas, and then eventually you just put those ideas into practice. Is that, is that sort of how it works?

Chris White
Well, I think that's pretty that's a pretty good description of how, how it does work. And I don't think it necessarily needs to be much more complicated than that. And I just, I just think, you know, there's a really good team at the MTC which has a, you know, huge breadth of experience through different sectors, not least, you know, the textiles, textiles sector. And I think, you know, it's the business is very, you know, the MTC is very keen to help business succeed. And I think you know how this is done. You know, short term, long term relationships. You know, investment in machinery to varying degrees of complexity. But, you know, going back and talking about, you know, just improving a factory layout can, in itself, make a huge difference on its own.

Jessica Owen
And I mean, is there ever the case that a company comes to you and there to do well they're asking for a solution that maybe you're not familiar with and that you actually have to go away yourself? Else. First brush up on what's needed to happen, and then you go ahead and try and teach them what you've just taught yourselves, if you sort of get what I mean, I

Chris White
think, I don't know whether this is company policy to say, but I'm, I'm sure there must be. I mean, we, we don't we are. We cannot be sort of press ready experts on on every single subject. And I think that's where, you know, sometimes collaboration comes into into four where you know, the business and the MTC, it's, you know, and it's research, it's a joint effort. And I think that's, you know, a very useful, a very useful part of the process, okay,

Jessica Owen
right? And now another case study that I wanted to mention, I should also apologize, because I didn't realize that you'd only been there since July. So I've now found all these things I wanted to talk about that you didn't necessarily work on, but I apologize, but Well, I mean, if you can help me out with this, so I saw the company also worked with a vehicle hardware supplier called Albert Jagger, and basically they approached you because they needed help In terms of reshoring. So is reassuring, something that well, I know that this is something that a lot of textile companies would like to achieve, because so much is like manufactured in Asia these days. But is that possible for everyone? And is it quite a common thing that you're asked about?

Chris White
Yeah, I mean, reassuring is a high priority. I think, you know, I think going back to PPE, we have seen the risk involved by not reassuring some of our, you know, key, key products PPE would be, would be one of those. But I think we've seen, you know, the vulnerability of some of our our supply chains. And I can see, you know, the value of, you know, building clusters. Bring back manufacturing, bringing back research, bringing back development is important to industries, you know, such as Jagger, and I think the MTC was again instrumental in in helping you know, to reshore business through using some of its, you know, upper level spec capabilities, From virtual reality to augmented reality and using its technologies to to sort of absolutely immerse the the workforce into, you know, what, what would the, what could the potential future look like? But that that, that's the sort of the skill set that that the MTC can provide to sort of solve problems, which, you know, are, you know, it is, how do you create the environment? How does this business create the environment where they can reshore production? And I think, you know, this was, this was clearly seen to be, you know, quite a success,

Jessica Owen
okay, right? And, I mean, while we're talking about the risk with sort of COVID 19 and PPE, for example, do you think that more companies will start to rethink their processes and supply chains now and do very similar things to what Albert Jagger was wanting to do? I think

Chris White
so. You know, in terms of clusters working on particular sectors, I can certainly see that there's, there are huge, huge advantages to business to to build resilience into their supply chain network. And by resilience, you know, a lot of that means reassuring where that can work, definitely, in terms of, you know, high value manufacturing, or manufacturing product bringing, bringing that back to the UK, some make, makes an awful lot of sense. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
definitely. And, I mean, I also saw that the MTC actually had a lot of involvement with PPE. So I think in the beginning, from what I understand, like, we obviously imported these products from elsewhere, and apparently you guys quickly organized a project to create face shields for NHS workers. Was this in response, then, because of the lack of PPE, and can you tell me a bit more about this project at all? I think,

Chris White
I mean, there's a couple of, a couple of issues here. Is that the MTC is, is, you know, part of a network. It's part of a manufacturing network. I think, you know, the. The culture is very much knowing that they have the capacity capability to help out with with problems. I mean, if you know, we look back to that time, and you know the shortages of some, you know, very basic equipment, because you know as going back to our previous conversation, because of the frigidity of the supply chains, the lead times that were involved, and it was, you know, I think the, you know, the sector as a whole, manufacturing sector as a whole, really stepped up to the to the plate to show that, you know, give us the task, and we'll, we'll do the job. I mean, it's not the first time I would suggest that manufacturing has, has come to the, you know, come to the rescue. It's, it's something that, you know. I think the MTC and others for that matter, are very proud that they were able to, you know, to help out, you know, when given that, when given the request,

Jessica Owen
yeah, no, definitely. I think there's a lot of people who have stepped up and realized that they're, they are capable of doing some great stuff in in a crisis, very

Chris White
much. So, yes, I mean, I mean, I'm hoping, you know, again to our theme. I mean, I'm hoping that we we learn from some of this experience, and whether it's reassuring, whether it's technologies, whether it's the ability for organizations to become more agile and flexible. You know, there's a lot of other lessons that we've all got to learn as well. Definitely,

Jessica Owen
okay. Well, and while I have you here, another topic that I wanted to talk to you about is sort of going back to upskilling, re Skilling and so on. But so the issue, I guess, with implementing technology is, from what I understand, people are concerned at whether this comes at the expense of the human workforce. So people see robots and think, Oh, well, if a robot can do my job, then am I out of work? If you see what I mean. So is this a valid concern? Would you say?

Chris White
I think I couldn't deny is a can be a concern. I'm not so sure whether it is a valid concern. I think technology is the speed and rate of change of technologies is accelerating. I think it is important to adopt new technologies, whether that's automation, robotics, or digitalization, or made smarter programs, all these things, I think that it is about sort of longer term security. It's making sure you know that there's, it's, I think global competition is is much more, perhaps aggressive and challenging than ever before, and we'll continue, continue in that direction. I think we need to be a sort of, you know, in terms of our businesses. We need to be as fit as possible. We need to make sure that, you know, our costs, you know. And when I go back to what I said earlier, it's, you know, putting a robot in is not always the answer. It it is one of the answers in terms of, you know, the skills. Yes, we do need to re skill or upskill people to be able to use some of these, you know, modern methods. But you know, as you know, everyday examples, things like, you know, bank tellers became ATM machines. And ATM machines became mobile banking. I'm not suggesting that the the we should sort of, you know, huge redundancies in our sort of finance sectors. You know, what other work can people be doing? What other you know, relationships and customer management, etc, etc, that can be done, rather than just one role that was that became superseded by literally a hole in the wall. 

Jessica Owen
Well, it's funny, you say that because I was speaking to someone, I think, back in the summer, and we were having this, this same conversation. They were saying, well, actually you might be getting rid of you might be replacing some jobs, but those jobs are likely the lower skilled jobs, and if you can fill those, then actually you might have some space to actually teach those people a new skill, and actually it might be better for them in the long run as well.

Chris White
Yes, I mean, I wouldn't want. To judge what what people want to do, or how they want to work, but I just, you know, I think it's important that, you know, everybody has an opportunity to reach their potential to do work that's interesting, that is not necessarily repetitive, that's not necessarily, you know, dangerous, not necessarily dull. I mean, you know, it's, it's great, if we could, I mean, some of it, some of those things may sound a bit fantastic, but I'm sure that everybody wakes up wanting to, you know, enjoy their their working lives, in a career that you know is rewarded, and a career that's interesting. And I think, you know, to be re skilled or upskilled into something, you know, in terms of new technologies or new ways of working isn't necessarily always a bad thing to be concerned about. I do think, though, I think some things need to be explained and and, you know, in terms of educating our workforce, in terms of the benefits of some of these approaches, is important as well. In without the education side of it, there will be, you know, concerns,

Jessica Owen
yeah, no, I agree with that. Actually. That's interesting. So moving on. Then, from what I understand, the MTCs overall vision is to sort of inspire Great British manufacturing. So do you think that the country will ever innovate on a national scale, gain a skilled workforce once again, and encourage people to look to the UK for manufacturing as I think we used to have a very good, well, a much bigger textile industry, car industry and so on. Would you agree with those things in as COVID? Maybe made us think it's possible, this

Chris White
is where I'm allowed to say, Yes, isn't it? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm, you know, as I said, as I worked for in the automotive sector. I've been work at the university. I have the privilege of seeing some of the things that the MTC has done. I think there's always, I think there's always a sort of passion in the UK for manufacturing. I think we, you know, for from the time of the Industrial Revolution to, you know, some of the things we're doing now, in terms of satellite applications, we've always been proud of, you know, our industrial heritage we're proud of. You know, our ability to innovate, to design our products are, you know, are recognizable around around the world. And we still, you know, there is, you know, made in Great Britain, still, that stamp is still valuable. I think making stuff is probably the best way to build a recovery. I think we, you know, we it is something we're good at, is something that, as a nation, we have a reputation for, and it's something that I think we can be proud of and believe in. So, yeah, I without a doubt, I see us becoming more, not less, a an innovative manufacturing after all, we we were once called the workshop of the world. Well,

Jessica Owen
do you know? I didn't know that. That's interesting. I've learned something new today. Well, now it's funny we talk about this. I think I heard on the news just this morning that as part of the government's recovery plan, we're now going to get our own space agency. So, I mean, I guess you could say that even the government thinks maybe we need to bring a few things home and start doing things better ourselves, and maybe that, maybe we can be, you know, Great Britain again, but, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what the next few years hold. I think I

Chris White
agree with you there. I mean, with all these things, I think, you know, there's, there's two recoveries, there's the immediate recovery. We need to make sure people are in work and all those on all those important things, but we need to make sure that recovery is is sustainable, and that's that's for the long, the long term. And I think, you know, talking about space and talking about moon shots, you know, if we want to be, you know, if we want to talk about space, then that requires long term plans. It requires, you know, people going to university now, to to learn, you know, different ways to research and develop and, you know, dare I say, exploit the opportunities of space. But I mean these, you know, the these. Things will take time, but they do need, you know, there's a degree of patience that is needed to make sure that, you know, if that's what we want to become, I have no reason to doubt that we can. It just needs it needs time, it needs planning. It needs people to believe that that's, that's where the investment should, should be most worthwhile, whether that's in terms of skills or in terms of, you know, finance.

Jessica Owen
Well, we're running out of time, actually. But before you go finally, I wanted to ask you to anyone who is skeptical about innovation, adding technology, doing things a bit differently and so on, what advice would you give to those people

Chris White
come and see what we do at the MTC,

Chris White
I think it's, you know, we all, you know, whether I've, I've got two laptops I got on my desk, I got a couple of other, you know, devices. And I think we, you know, we, we, whether we like it or not, we have to, you know, individually adapt to change. And I think we probably see the advantages of, you know, the whether that's in in terms of healthcare, whether it's in terms of, you know, Net Zero, whether it's in terms of space, as we've just discussed there. You know, technology is changing. We want things that will make, you know, improve our quality of quality of life. And I think technology and innovation is it plays a huge part in that.

Jessica Owen
Okay, interesting. Um, well, I think I'm gonna have to wrap things up for today. But thank you, Chris, for talking to me about the MTC, what you guys do, thoughts on digitalization and recovery. I mean, it's been great. It's been lovely having you on Thank you.

Chris White
It's been a great pleasure for me, and thank you for taking the time out to to ask a few questions.