Ep. 43: Empowering women with luxury performance clothing Ankit Podcast

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Ep. 43: Empowering women with luxury performance clothing

In this episode of The WTiN Podcast, we talk to the founders of Cucumber Clothing, Eileen Willett and Nancy Zeffman.

Jessica Owen
Music, hello. My name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTiN, and this is the WTiN podcast. 2020. Has been a challenging year for everyone so far. Therefore, for this series, I'll be exploring the innovative ways in which companies are using Textiles and Apparel to improve our health and well being. This week, I am joined by Eileen Willett and Nancy Zeffman, who are the founders of cucumber clothing, Eileen and Nancy talk about blending luxury with performance fabrics to create clothes that empower women their approach to sustainability and how the pandemic has made US mindful of comfort and the madness of fashion.

Well, hello guys, and thank you so much for joining me today on the WTiN podcast. I mean, how are you both? 

Eileen Willett
Well, good morning, and thank you so much

Nancy Zeffman
for having us here morning for Eileen, as she's not in London at the moment, but I'm, I'm, I'm in the UK, but things are good,

Jessica Owen
making it work long distance, exactly,

Eileen Willett
exactly, exactly the sun is managing to peep out from behind the clouds. So that's put me in a good mood, straight. Lucky you.

Jessica Owen
So I've invited you both on the podcast today to talk about your company, cucumber clothing. Do you mind just telling me a bit about it. And I mean, how would you describe yourselves?

Eileen Willett
Nancy, do you want to take that one?

Nancy Zeffman
Okay, so, well, cucumber clothing. So Arlene and I have known each other a very long time. We met at the school gates, probably, oh, probably over 20 years ago now. And basically, we both, we will say, and it's true, we both love to keep fit and work out. And remember a time when everybody was wearing their kind of leggings all day long, because they use these amazing performance fabrics that keep you cool, they don't crease. And actually, we thought there must be a way to replicate that, to make fantastic, to make clothing added these amazing fabrics, but fab but, but clothing that doesn't feel like it's just for working out. So our fabrics have a fantastic hand feel, but they drape really nicely. So what we're doing really, is taking all these amazing, ultra modern performance fabrics and using them in an unusual way. So we're sort of marrying high tech with everyday, luxurious clothing, right?

Jessica Owen
Okay, and so I believe you founded the company back in 2016

Nancy Zeffman
2017 actually, we're only we just had our third anniversary. Oh,

Jessica Owen
lovely, okay. But I mean, what were you both doing before that, and what sort of kick started the whole idea to actually set up the company? Well,

Eileen Willett
why don't I take that one? Um, well, before we we were really busy, actually. And the irony is, is, when we came up with this idea, we both are, well, this is a really interesting idea. Then, you know, we want to make the clothes that we want to wear that we would like to have in our lives, so this will just be a fun project on the side. You know, exactly. I mean, at the time, I had my own business. It was a women's accessory business. It was great. I was really enjoying it. It was fitting with my life really well. Nancy was working a lot in the charitable sector, and we we felt busy, but we felt we had enough time around the edges to to do something, you know, an interesting project, the two of us and team up together and do that. But in fact, what happened was we launched in September 2017, and two days after we launched, Lise Armstrong, the fashion director at the telegraph, wrote a big article about us with pictures. And can I just say the power of media is extraordinary. And we just had an enormous rush of sales. And, you know, we just carried on from there. So six months after we launched, I shut down my poor, beleaguered business. I couldn't carry on with it. Nazi sort of had to, you know, creep away from what she was doing, because we thought, well, we have a market. Clearly, we have customers who really love our products. So either we have to make a proper go of this, what was, what was meant to be a hobby, and turn it into a proper company, or we just need to turn our backs on it. So we took the plunge. I can't say it's been totally smooth sailing, but we we certainly haven't regretted it. It's been amazing, amazingly fun and interesting and educational and a roller coaster. I would

Nancy Zeffman
say the most fun thing has been how much we've learned and all the interesting people we've met along the way. And, you know, just really opens you up to new insights. It's, I know that's been a really exciting part of it. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
it sounds it and. Gosh, it sounds like it was meant to be as well. I mean, the fact that it just reached such heights within six months just says it all really. I guess

Eileen Willett
we like to think so. Yes, I yeah, I can. I can only agree, because I still remember when the article came out and our our sales just started pinging and pinging and pinging. And Nancy was like, Oh, this is great. This must be how always is. And I was like, No, you don't understand, online businesses, driving traffic to website is literally impossible, unless you throw 1000s of pounds at it, and we've done nothing. So this is extraordinary. And I

Nancy Zeffman
would say, yeah, just adding to that, I would say that because, you know, we are a small startup, and we don't really have funds for marketing. All our PR marketing has really been because we have this interesting story to tell. We haven't paid for any advertising. So we feel quite proud of ourselves that we've managed to generate this interest, if you like, without actually throwing money at it in that sense.

Jessica Owen
Yeah, definitely. So let's have a chat about your products then. So you offer a range of different things, from like sleepwear to yoga wear. I mean, can you tell me about some of the stuff that you have on offer? Well, we started

Nancy Zeffman
very much with a sleepwear collection. So when we launched, we really just wanted to dip our toe and make sure we had something that was that people wanted to buy. So when we launched, it was literally just a range of six pieces in two colors, and it was very much aimed at the sleepwear market. And the whole point of our clothing is it keeps you cool and fresh, and a lot of people do suffer with getting hot at night. So that's where we started. And really it's from the feedback from our customers that we realize there's a whole nother market out there. So our clothes are fantastic for travel. When people do go back to traveling, because, you know, airplanes can get hot and cold. You arrival crumpled and sweaty, and this way you don't, you can go straight off out. You know, they're very multi functional. Lots of our pieces. The point is, you can dress them up, dress them down. It's how you wear our clothes. So really, you know, we offer, I think it's four different fabric types at the moment, but they all work in a well, they all work in different ways, but they essentially do the same thing, which is to keep you, you know, cool and fresh and able to go on with your day without worrying about anything else. So that's really the core of what we do.

Jessica Owen
Okay? And just sticking with the sleepwear. Then, I mean, what makes perfect sleepwear? Is it that sort of breathability, thermoregulation aspect that people are wanting. Do

Nancy Zeffman
you know, I think people, I mean, it depends on where you're coming from. Obviously, you know, if you're looking for a hot a hot night you might, and actually, properly, not good hot night, you might want something silky and lazy. But I think for most of us, what we want is a good night's sleep. And for some people, that's the Holy Grail. And I think you've hit the nail on the head by saying thermoregulation, because I think whatever your what, however you are at night, whether you feel cold or hot, the key thing is, you want your body to be at an even temperature, because there's nothing worse than waking up halfway through the night and feeling freezing cold and desperately looking around for an extra layer to put On, or feeling boiling hot and slinging off all your duvets, and, you know, whichever way it's going to disturb you. And what I have definitely found is, because I always used to, you know, sleep in, you know, cotton PJs. Or an idea, whatever it is, is that our fabrics really do keep you thermo regulated, so that you just don't wake up thinking, oh my goodness, I'm baking, or, oh my goodness, I'm freezing. I'm normally at the freezing end of the range, as My poor husband knows, he's like my heart breaking the bed because my feet are is freezing. But now I honestly don't have that so much. I just, it just keeps you warm. It gives you that extra layer of warmth when you need it, and it keeps you cool when you start feeling like you're too hot. So I do think that that evenness of temperature and breathability is a key to a good night's

Eileen Willett
sleep. Yeah, and I would just add to that, that it's kind of an old wives tale, that the best way to sleep is sleep naked, but actually that that doesn't help with thermo regulating at all, because you can get very hot and clammy. And actually wearing something that is thermo regulating can help with body temperature, rather than thinking that, you know, to go to go it alone,

Jessica Owen
right? That's really interesting. I mean, I have to admit, I've heard that, and my mom's always said to me, shouldn't sleep with underwear on. You shouldn't sleep with this on. And I'm like, Okay, well, I can tell her otherwise. Now,

Eileen Willett
this is different. Well,

Jessica Owen
you know what I mean anyway? And so I just wanted to ask as well. I mean, I've spoken to a couple other people in this podcast series, and they said that sleep is something that I think a lot of people are trying to invest in, especially this year with everything that's going on. So have you seen a spike in sales at all? Or

Nancy Zeffman
I'd say that sleepwear has always been a mainstay for us. I mean, like I say, a lot of our pieces, the whole point is the multi functionality. So, I mean, you can't see me right now, but I'm wearing one of our oversized, long, tea, long T shirts, and I will often sleep in it as well. But the fact is, because it doesn't return. In any sweater rotors. I might also just wear it in the day, and nobody would know. I mean, that sounds disgusting because we're all so obsessed with cleanness and over washing. But the whole point is, you know, a lot of our pieces you can wear either in the daytime or for sleeping, but there is no doubt that our sort of, you know, our our pieces that are very much more PJ related are seeing, I would say, a slight increase, because, you know, sleep is a major for the last few years, I'd say sleep has been a big thing people have been talking about, and even

Jessica Owen
more so now, Okay, interesting. And you also said there that you also have, like, a travel friendly collection. I mean, has that had a hit this year as well? Because obviously, people can't fly, they can't go anywhere.

Eileen Willett
Do you know, I think we've been well, I mean, I don't know if lucky is the word, but because our because one of the things that we really try and say about our collections is, is, is that they're multi functional, and by that we mean, as Nancy said, you know, she can sleep in her t shirt. She can wear it during the day. And when we talk, might have time to talk about sustainable washing a bit later on, but all of our pieces are really meant to be able to double up whatever you're doing. So for instance, I'm wearing right now, as you can't see me either, our little ballet top, which I love. I like it just because I'm, you know, actually, you know, stuck in a house on the other side of the world right now. But I usually wear after coming I'm coming back from yoga, I flick it over, if I like doing hot yoga, I flick it over my sort of sweaty gym kit, and I look very presentable by the time I'm home. Everything's, you know, dry, that's fine and and all our pieces are like that, even our V neck, what we call our V neck dresses, they started off really as a night wear piece. But so many of our customers wear their during the day. They belt them, they wear them with little lace up sandals, or they wear them with Doc Martens and a jumper on top. And, you know, our slate PJ trousers. They can wear those in bed, obviously, but a lot of people use them for Pilates, or they might wear them just to run down to the shop. So in actual fact, I think so many of our collections, as it were, people do like to have collections. They can think, I want sleep, but I want to look at that. But actually, once they get onto our site, they they'll see that there's multi functionality throughout it. And something, you know, one of our brand new jumpsuit we have a customer bought several of them because she loves them to sleep in, you know. And for me, a jumpsuit, maybe not so much sleep, but for some people, makes total sense. So you know, that's what our collections really are about, multi functionality, right?

Jessica Owen
And I mean, have you found, I mean, from when I looked on your website, I mean, some of your stuff you could probably class as loungewear. So have you found that you've got new customers looking for that kind of thing because they're working from home, or they just want something that's easier to wear now than that, not in the office, for example. Yeah. I

Nancy Zeffman
mean, we're definitely about fuss free clothing. So people are looking for those zoom outfits that you know, like Arlene said that could, you know, I was wearing some of our clothes to go to Pilates this morning and, you know, but that can also have my meetings in them. It's that kind of where we're at throughout, throughout the day. And you know, maybe you might change part of your outfit, but not all of it. So no, definitely. And just going back to that jumpsuit, and Eileen says we had a customer who's bought some for sleeping in. I know another customer who, you know, does her her yoga in it. So, you know, it's the same item. It's really depends how you see yourself wearing it. So definitely, I think in some ways, COVID has been good for us, because, yes, people are looking for comfortable, comfortable clothes they can lounge around in, but look presentable in, and that's what we're about, really. Yeah. And just to add on to that, I'd say I don't think landra is going to wear I do think you know that hopefully when the COVID cloud lifts and disappears off into the distance. People will have this feeling they want, you know, to get back into party clothes and dress up. But I also think that for most of us, the whole idea of wearing uncomfortable clothing all the time is just something in the past. I mean, it's to me, it's akin to those years, if you think between the 1950s to 1970s women went from wearing girdles, suspenders, pantyhose, those kind of built in, like rocket type bras, to going braless and wearing, you know, hipster jeans. And it's that feeling of freedom. I think people have gone from thinking, oh my goodness, I'm going into the office. I don't need to wear a super tight dress and suit, and kind of suits, type heels, and, you know, I can still look great and yet feel comfortable. And I think for most people, that's going to be the role that they're going to take going forward. And we fit very much into that middle space. I would say, yeah, definitely.

Jessica Owen
Well, I mean, it's probably too much information, but I couldn't agree more. I mean, now that I'm working from home most of the time, I don't bother with a bra, it's so much more free.

Eileen Willett
So talk about knickers and bears. Your listeners are really going

Jessica Owen
daily. But you know what I mean, like at the end of the day, women do tend to do. As soon as they get through the door, just take off all of it, whip it all up to pajamas, I don't know, and just, you know, chill out a bit. So I completely get that exactly. Now I wanted to talk about another market of yours, which is breastfeeding and new mums. Is this quite a big category for you. I mean, I'm not a mother myself, so I don't really know the market at all. But are there many other companies that offer what you offer?

Nancy Zeffman
I think that actually what you find is that the kind of whole new mum market or pregnancy market is very much a clear segment. So most companies that cater to that market are really catering specifically for that market, and no other market. But what we again, for us, it's multi functionality, and we came to it because we had customers who are buying our clothes for their daughters and their daughters in law, saying, oh so and so will absolutely love this, because it's so comfortable and it looks beautiful on but she can chuck it in a cold wash and she can wear it the next day. Because, I mean, I've always worked in fashion, and I ended up having three children, highlight of my life. But what I found was I had this amazing wardrobe of gorgeous, dry cleanable, Olney fabrics, and when you're leaking breast milk everywhere, it's not so great, because you don't know when you're going to get to the dry cleaners. And quite frankly, quite frankly, you've got better things to do. So if and so your wardrobe changes and you start looking for things which are are easy to take care of, are comfortable to wear, and yet still can make you look good. And that's, I think, where our clothes fit in really well. So for instance, I've got a cousin who is newly pregnant. Her mother, just in fact, as a gift, bought her one of our dresses, which she absolutely loves because it's so comfortable. And some of our styles, then, having come to this area, some of our styles we actually created to make sure that they were properly breastfeeding friendly. So our ruffle top and dress, and in fact, the ballet top I'm wearing now, which has got a little popper on it, are fantastic for young breastfeeding mums. They're also fantastic for people like me now who are not breastfeeding. They look super great, but it's just got that added functionality. And I think young mums really need the ease of care. That's such a time consuming thing, having to think about doing a wash for dry cleaning anything you don't need to think about that with us. Things are spot cleanable. Chuck them in the wash if you need to hang to dry. No ironing. You know, you couldn't make it easier for somebody who's time pressed for time.

Jessica Owen
Okay, interesting. And I guess on the other end of the spectrum, you also offer garments for women who are going through the menopause. Is there anything special about these pieces, and how and how popular are they? Well,

Nancy Zeffman
I would say, I mean, in a way, it's the same it's looking at the same segment as the the breastfeeding mothers. So breastfeeding mums and pregnant and menopause are women. What they have in common is their hormones are all over the place. So really, they're looking for the same solution. So it's really just about the styling. So again, we do have a menopause section, which are those the dresses that women find maybe more flattering when maybe, I don't know, they're starting to feel they got a little bit of middle aged spread. So a lot of our style. So for example, our camisole top has a nice pleat down the front, so it's very forgiving over the tummy area. It's that kind of thing that we're really looking at in the styling, but, but the fabrics and everything exactly the same. It's more about which pieces you feel, you know, you feel most comfortable wearing at your your stage in life. Yes, again, it's how you style them. So, you know, our V neck dress has been very, very popular with a lot of, you know, women who are going through the menopause, but then, like Eileen says, a lot of younger women, or some of those menopause or women are, you know, wearing it in different ways during the day. So it's again, that multi functionality, you know, all all our items really are servicing all those different groups. It's just some and maybe more geared towards different life stages.

Jessica Owen
And Eileen, did you have something to add in there? I

Nancy Zeffman
did, but owing to that, my brain seems to have gone to college. I can't remember what it was, and that was three seconds ago. But, yeah, but no, I completely agree with Nancy. And I do think that, you know, and the idea of menopausal woman is, you know, nowadays, honestly, you know, when I was growing up, somebody over 50, well, that seemed terribly old. Nowadays, it really, you know, look at Madonna. She's just amazing. She's in her city. So people have all these role models of what does it mean to be an older woman? And I think our clothes fit into that really well. Because, you know, the clothes that a 30 year old would put on and were feeling comfortable from us equally, a 60 year old could put on and feel exactly the same comfortable wearing it. And I think it's more the idea that our clothes make people's life busy, women's lives easier. They give them a little bit of that luxurious feeling without any of the hassle that's normally associated with luxury. So, you know, I love high heels. Nancy knows that to my power, I really, really do. I miss wearing them in these in these strange days. But they're they are quite uncomfortable generally. And I. Love wearing, you know, beautiful dresses and stuff quite often, they're just really not comfortable. So what we are trying to do for all those women, whether they're menopausal or they're, you know, on a quick overnight trip to visit a relative or they've got babies in each arm, is to make their lives a little bit easier, make them feel good while they're wearing it, and give them that little bit of luxury in their everyday without the hassle.

Jessica Owen
Well, I mean, that sounds like you've just summed it up so nicely. And I guess another aspect of what you're doing is you're just giving women confidence as well. Yeah, that's

Nancy Zeffman
very much at the heart of what we're doing. We're trying to make people feel good about themselves.

Jessica Owen
Yeah? And I think we all need a lot of that at the moment. Yeah, no,

Nancy Zeffman
definitely, because I think we all know that feeling. I mean, it's a bit of a previous world now about like rushing to a meeting, and maybe you've taken the tube, or I do a lot of cycling, you've cycled there, and it's bit hot and sweaty, and you get there and you feel crumpled, and you're not sure if your skirts are wrapped up at the back, and do you have a sweat? I mean, sweat. I mean, all this goes to your head because you want to be presentable. And our clothes, just take all of that out, because they're anti cross. You're never going to walk in somewhere and think, oh, everything's looking all wrinkled like a linen suit, and you're not going to have sweat patches. You're just going to feel at least. If there's one thing you don't need to worry about, it's your clothes. So you can put that to the back of your mind, so it is, you're quite right. You've hit the nail on the head again, which is it is a lot about empowering women and giving them confidence in their day to day lives.

Jessica Owen
And I also saw that you're now offering face masks so people can match that with your outfits as well. Well,

Nancy Zeffman
the face masks are it's part of our social enterprise as well. So we've always supported different women charities. And basically, if you buy a face mark for every two face masks sold, we donate one, but they are lined with our amazing volcanic mineral fabric, so they don't really get you just don't get so hot and sweaty, and we will have to wear face masks for so much at the time now. And it's another way to use off cut. So what's very important to us is to do as much as we can in a sustainable way. So it's a way to use those fabric off cuts and put them to good use, really.

Jessica Owen
And how have they been selling? Have they done quite well over the last few months? Really well?

Nancy Zeffman
Because everyone wants, like, hot cakes, like hot cakes, really. And I think people also like the idea that, you know, they're supporting social enterprise at the end time, it's, it's nice because you can buy, you know, you can buy incredibly expensive face masks. Honestly, obviously, I haven't tried them, but I honestly think ours are so comfortable, because when you're wearing it, that gets, you know, I've just had to do a very long flight. I mean, you got to wear something against your skin for that long a time. You do end up with it rubbing against your face. You can end up getting a rash and all that kind of stuff. And I do think having a really breathable, light fabric next to a skin makes a lot of difference. I do wish there was a camera on so I've got my face baths next to now, and the one I have is so cute. So yeah, I hope people take a look. Yeah.

Jessica Owen
I mean, when I was looking on your website, I immediately my eyes went to this nice bluey floral one, and it was the one that was sold out. And I was like, Oh, brilliant,

Nancy Zeffman
we only ever do small runs, though. So all of our things, once they've gone, they've gone that that implies to our clothing as well, well.

Jessica Owen
I mean, that links in nicely to something else that I wanted to talk about, which, which is sustainability. And as you said, that's something that's quite important to your company. So in what ways do you try and be sustainable then? Well, I think the

Nancy Zeffman
most important thing for us is knowing our supply chain. We're very transparent. So we're not saying we're perfect, but we we do everything within five miles of our London base. So we import our fabrics, because nothing like them is made in the UK. But once the fabric is here, we do all our pattern cutting, grading, sampling, manufacturing, everything within a five mile radius. We all our trims, extras. They're all recycled, or at least recyclable. They're all sourced within England. And we know, I mean, we know our factory so well, we even know the factory top, but we we know that we're only paying fair wages along the way, and that's something that's something that's really important to us. And a lot of people, you know, people do comment on our prices. And you know, we would say we're expensive high street, but you know, this is the true cost of fashion, and we would much. We want to know that what we're making, we are not taking advantage of people. And yes, you can buy things cheaper, although not really made from the sort of the modern fabrics we're using. But you know, we know that whatever we're making, we are supporting, we're supporting proper industries along the way, and that's very important

Jessica Owen
to us, right? And I mean, like you said, There you're I mean, when I went on your website, I didn't think your garments cost the earth, but as you say, when you've got companies, I don't mean to single out prime up, but it's always the one that comes to mind for having such cheap and affordable clothing. It's a really tricky line to try and but if you're buying a t shirt for

Nancy Zeffman
299 then someone is not getting paid fairly along the way. And I think clothing is going a little bit the way supermarkets have gone in that people are realizing that, you know, everything comes at a cost, but we're really not. We're trying to be the complete. Fast fashion. So we are not those things where you would buy, you know, 5t shirts and wear them three times. The whole point is our fabrics last an incredibly long time. They last up to six the color and the and the materials themselves last up to six times longer than cotton. So these are pieces to keep they are to wear over and over and over again. And I know we keep banging on about the fact that you can wear them in lots of different settings, but that is the point that you can take one of our tops and you can wear it in so many different ways that it gives you lots of different outfits. I don't think we'd ever be the hero piece, but we are the supporting act, whether you want to be dressed up or or relaxed out and just to into it, just to interject there one other thing that we've that we've done, though, actually, no one's taken us up on it, yeah, which is that we've tried to introduce a little bit more more circularity into into our company. And what we say is that if anybody has a piece of cucumber that they've loved very much and they've worn many, many times, but we all know that fashion is a fickle mistress, and women do like to have a bit of a change up in their wardrobes every so often. So if they want to move on to another piece, they can send it back to us. We will make sure it's reused or recycled, and they'll get a discount off their next purchase. So it's not a huge thing, but it just means that that we have this belief that our clothes do last a long time, and we're willing to take, you know, take the clothes back and give a discount off it, because we know that someone somewhere else would be able to use it. 

Jessica Owen
You'll be bored of it before it before it passes away, definitely, right? I'm surprised no one's taking you up on that. That sounds like such an incentive. Well,

Nancy Zeffman
I think is we haven't been going because, if we've only been going through, our clothes are designed to last a lot longer than

Jessica Owen
Well, yeah, you might it might be another 10 years then until you get someone but I just wanted to go back. I mean, you were talking there about how you're offering, like, seasonless clothing, really, and I guess what you're trying to do, really, is for your consumers, it's just about that idea of creating a capsule wardrobe, and then those pieces you can interchange. And hopefully it's sort of getting away from trends and more into just style, I guess is how you'd sort of define the two sort of topics.

Nancy Zeffman
Yeah. I mean, sorry, Eileen, you go ahead.

Eileen Willett
Okay, thanks. Well, I was going to say, if I can bracket ourselves with Gucci, which I will write down, we were at the forefront of this new trend for season as clothing, because I think that the pandemic has really put people into made people very mindful of the fact that this whole endless chasing after the six seasons of the traditional fashion calendar is kind of it's a kind of madness. It's a self created madness. And, you know, even big companies like Gucci are now saying they're just going seasonless. They're not doing the traditional season shows, you know, the the four, you know, spring, summer, autumn, winter, plus cruise collection, plus Christmas cut. You know, that's just going out the window, because people aren't buying that way anymore, and people don't want to be dictated. And to be honest with climate change, the climate's all over the place anyway, so, and this whole idea, we all know, that ridiculous feeling going into the shops in August and finding, you know, winter coats with, you know, giant fluffy collars. And you just, it just doesn't make any sense. And I think we all think that it adds to the wastefulness of the whole fashion cycle. And fashion is very wasteful. And as I said before, and I'm, I'm, you know, the perfect model for this. I do love clothes, and I love fashion, and I wouldn't, I would find it very difficult to have and just live on an essential capsule collection. But having said that, there are pieces I go back to all the time, and a lot of those are my cucumber pieces, because I know that that they are comfortable and that they'll work with whatever I want. So you know, here are pieces all around. But those essential pieces, you still need them for your everyday, definitely. And I would just add just a little bit to that, which is, and for that reason, we never really go on sale. I mean, we do the odd promotion, but we're not driven by a season and then dead stop. Firstly, because we do small runs. So like I said before, once it's gone, it's gone. But also the idea that this is the true cost of fashion, and because we're seasonless, pieces that we've been making, we've made when we first launched, they might still be selling. It's not it's not about changing it up the whole time.

Jessica Owen
It's funny. You say that actually, I've spoken to a few people recently from all areas of the industry. Actually, someone is got a wetsuit company, and they said, well, what's the point on going on sale? If what you're offering is supposed to last a lifetime, it just doesn't make any there we are anyway. So I just wanted to move on then, because, unfortunately, we're sort of coming to the end of today's podcast. But do you have any future plans at all? I mean, funnily enough, you just said there, like your things are seasonless. So I don't know if you've got any new collections or any new styles that you were thinking of bringing out soon. Oh, we do we

Nancy Zeffman
do well, we've got a new collection coming up very soon, in the next month, and when I say collection. So we tend to do collections as and when either we find a great new fabric or we feel that. Time is right. So it's coming up to Christmas. We're bringing out a few new pieces. One is a cardigan, which we did some focus groups in the summer when we were we spent a lot of the pandemic revamping our website and, you know, bringing everything up to speed and clearing out cupboards and dusting the shelves as it were, metaphorically. And one of the things we did was focus groups to really try and hone in on what our customers wanted. And one of the things that came up over and over again was a cardigan, a really nice, easy piece. So for all of you listeners out there who wanted that cardigan, it is coming. And then a really very cute another basic piece, but with a little twist, with a little keyhole at the back t shirt and a really gorgeous jumpsuit, just in black with buttons up the front, which is perfect for lounging. It's perfect for going out if you've got anywhere to go out. It's perfect for a zoom day. Is just it's a really nice piece. And then I think, without letting too much of a cat out of the bag, next year, we are thinking of really doing a proper essentials collection, because I think that is something that people would like. So yeah, Nancy, do you have anything to add to that?

Plans? No, no, no. With lots of exciting plans. And you know, we're just getting different fabric samples in now, because we're always, looking at new fabrics and how they work. We always wanted to stay ahead of the trend. So we're looking at, you know, colors and styles and, yeah, busy, busy doing that. 

Jessica Owen
Which is great. I mean, you said earlier that you use volcanic, well, volcanic minerals, which is, I think, is it 37.5

Nancy Zeffman
that That's right. So it keeps you at a constant temperature of 37.5

Jessica Owen
right? Yeah. They're a very cool company. Actually. We've, we've spoken to them in the past at WTI n, but, I mean, are you looking to use any more types of fabrics, any more really cool, slightly wacky things like that? Yeah.

Nancy Zeffman
Well, the thing about 37.5 but it's actually, it's a North American company that that they license different mills. So we're looking at different fabric qualities that that use that in different ways. So we've just used one fabric quality to date, so we're looking at other ones of those. But we test every fabric that we use. So whatever we get in that we like, we make up a few pieces. Try them on real inadvertent commerce women to make sure, you know, we do as they say. They do as we say, because no point if they don't. So, yeah, so that's what we're doing now, just having a look at all the different things that are out there at the moment. Okay,

Jessica Owen
interesting, right? Well, finally, I just wanted to ask you both, because I've been asking everyone in this series so far. But I mean, what do you both do to look after your own sort of health and well being?

Nancy Zeffman
I'm gonna say too much.

I We both. I think the good thing about having a co founder, we've said this a lot of times, is, I mean, you need time out every so often, and you get time out because you've got somebody else who can hold the baby while you're having that time out. So, you know, we both we, but we should we actually have the same personal trainer, Eileen, don't we? And, you know, Eileen does your cold water swimming and your yoga. I do a bit of Pilates. I've got a dog. I'm walking my dog a lot.

Eileen Willett
Used to do basketball when, when people are allowed to play basketball, not allowed to but no,

Nancy Zeffman
I think it's important. Well, it's important for both of us to look after yourself, because we've realized if you don't look after look after ourselves, there's not going to be anybody there to look after the business. So it's, it's important investment, whichever way you look at it. Yeah.

Eileen Willett
And I think exercise, physical exercise, is such a is such a boon for your mental not just for your physical health, but definitely for my mental health. I just, I think being able to really just kind of blank your mind when you're sweating hard, is is massive positive. And I'm also not just, I'm also quite a beauty junkie. So I love trying different products, and I'm I love all those little samples that you get. So I do a lot of, you know, home facials, probably at the moment now, because I've got a little bit of time, so I'm aware in the evenings, I'm going to bed very early in my childhood, my childhood house, I'm staying with my dad. I go to bed very, very early, and before I go to bed, I spend half an hour giving myself a little homemade facial and facial massage and all of that. And I think, you know, when you have the time to do it, if you can squeeze it into the corners of you know, Everyone's so busy now, of your busy life, it does make a difference, because then you just feel better about yourself. It's important to make time. Yeah, it really, really is, however busy you are and and life is very stressful right now for everybody, and we have to recognize that, I think, and try and do as much as we can to make our own lives better so we can help others too,

Jessica Owen
definitely. Well, I mean, you've inspired me there to go home and have a bath in my own

Nancy Zeffman
face mask. Do it. Do it. Do it. It's so picture

Jessica Owen
the candles already. Take your bra. I know I've let too many cats out of the bag. Well, I mean, guys, it's been so lovely to speak to you both. And thank you so much. Bucha. Sharing your company journey and just telling us all about cucumber clothing. It's been great. 

Nancy Zeffman
Thank you for inviting thank you so much. It was really fun. Thank you.