Ep. 37: Sensoree’s wearables can externalise intimacy Ankit Podcast

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Ep. 37: Sensoree’s wearables can externalise intimacy

In this episode of The WTiN Podcast, we talk to Kristin Neidlinger, founder of Sensoree.

Jessica Owen
Hello. My name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTIN, and this is the WTIN podcast. You past 2020. Has been a challenging year for everyone so far. Therefore, for this series, I'll be exploring the innovative ways in which companies are using Textiles and Apparel to improve our health and well being. This week, I am joined by Kristin Neidlinger, who is the founder of the bioresponsive wearable company sensory Kristin talks about her master's degree research that led to developing the company her wearable products such as the mood sweater, and how her goal Is to externalize intimacy, to promote awareness and empathy. You music. Well, hello Kristin, and welcome to the WTIN podcast. So how are you doing? I think you're calling all the way from California.

Kristin Neidlinger
Yes, thank you for the invitation. I'm in San Francisco right now. Happy to be here. Well,

Jessica Owen
I mean, so I've invited you on the show today to talk about your company sensory I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. And yeah, you guys are really quite unique, so I thought it would be great to have the opportunity to speak to you. So for those people listening who haven't come across you guys before, do you mind just sort of briefly explaining what it is that you do exactly well.

Kristin Neidlinger
My name is Kristen neidlinger, and I founded this company called sensory we create therapeutic biomedia. So what we do? We take biosensors to monitor how you're feeling, and then we translate that in real time to visual audio or tactile displays. So it gives the body real time feedback for awareness how you're feeling, but also communicates to other people, right?

Jessica Owen
And what do you mean there by bio media and biosensors? Exactly?

Kristin Neidlinger
Yeah. So we, we work with different bio sensors, and we integrate them in fabric so they're like, emotionally durable, means that they're more comfortable than like the hospital sensors with nice textures that you want to cuddle with, use anything from like heart rate sensors to like a brain computer interface. Excitement sensors, one of my favorite, it's called the galvanic skin response, shows like your excitement, nervousness.

Jessica Owen
Okay, and so you mentioned there that you actually founded the company. What was the inspiration for it? I mean, where did the idea for all of this come from?

Kristin Neidlinger
Well, this actually came about as my master's thesis about 10 years ago. Before I went back to school for my master's. I was a physical therapist specializing in dancers, and I went back to create tools for awareness of your body and space. And during my studies, I came up with this idea, because there's Arduinos, there's these little micro controllers that you can program any way you want to, and they're very fairly simple, and I had a background using biosensors, you know, the physical therapy lab, but this opened a whole new door. Like, oh, this can be for awareness. And not just like, how many heart beats you have per minute, but actually like, Oh, you're feeling uneasy right now, and that's such a big part of the healing process is being able to calm your nervous system and get a baseline so you can actually heal, so you're not just like fight or flight, running all over the place. So that was the inspiration and and the masters program, I created a series of prototypes, and one ended up going viral, which I didn't know what viral was at that time, and that was the mood sweater, my most popular design. Well,

Jessica Owen
that's actually one of the products. Well, as you just said there, it's probably what you're most well known for. So I do kind of want to talk about that a bit more. But before that, you said that you have sort of a background in dance, and you wanted to use this technology to actually show what it means, instead of just what it measures. I mean, are we talking about just taking a heart rate then? And instead of just saying, this is your heart rate, you're saying, well, your heart rate's very fast. You could be quite stressed out or worried. Is that sort of what you mean by this?

Kristin Neidlinger
Yes, it's a form. It's called biofeedback, where you let somebody see their their printout, I want to say their own, their bio data, like the charts, and then you can learn to control your heart rate. If you see like, oh, it's very fast. And then, okay, here's some breathing techniques to control that so you can calm down. And I was inspired to create the next version of that, where it's actually on your body and more interactive and fun, instead of looking at a screen with graph data. And it has proven to be very fun, like which is also a part of the healing process. So

Jessica Owen
the mood sweater, then, sort of came out from all of this. I mean, how would you describe this project? Then, like, what does it do? Exactly? So

Kristin Neidlinger
like, the mood sweater, for example, has the GABA and X skin response that reads your excitement levels. So it shows pretty much just calm, too excited. And the sensors are on the hands, and that's uncontrollable sweat, so it's like blushing. So it gives a very honest read, where the heart rate you can control by breathing. But I really like this one because it's so honest in them. And then we translate that data into a palette of five different colors, and it's the design we created all through design research labs, where we have people try different things. We came up with large collar so people could look down and have self reflection into the collar, but also have the color reflect back upon their face. And they also like to heighten it, so it's kind of a personal space, but it also reflects out upon other people. So we can communicate to your caregiver or your friends how you're feeling at the moment,

Jessica Owen
right? Okay, so, so, if I can just ask so someone using this this then, so it's just like a normal sweater that you put on. And then what do they do from there? Is there a button they have to press? Or how does it work? Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
there's a the on switch, and then we put the two sensors on your hands, and then from there, it turns on. There's a loop that goes around the collar, goes like you're alive, and then it goes, it's, it goes into a breathing pattern. So we want to give you some tools to start with. So we have you follow the LEDs for a breathing pattern for about five breaths, so that you learn to calm your nervous system if you get too excited, and then it goes into your true mood color. So there's a palette of five colors that actually match the oxygen level in your skin. So we're really just amplifying what's already happening in your body. So it goes from a green, which is a very calm, like meditative state, to blue, which is more like focused state, and then up to purple, pink, which is like ruffled, excited, and then to red, which is nervous or in love. And then we go all the way to white, which is like ecstatic, like super excited.

Jessica Owen
And so what is the material actually made of? Is it just a normal jumper with sensors in the hands and woven into it? I mean, what's actually involved in the product itself? Yeah, we have,

Kristin Neidlinger
right now, we've printed very nice sensors, actually, that we've made in London, and those are in the hands. They're very ergonomic, and we've had circus artists do handstands in them, so they're tested. And then there's some wires that integrate into the fabric and to the collar, and then there's LEDs around the collar. And it was interesting to make it because, you know, e textiles and electronic industry, and then the textile industry are the two biggest polluters, so we really were mindful about that. So we separated the electronics so they're able to snap out. And so we can wash the textile, or you could put it in a new garment. We wanted to be really mindful of the waste, and that actually took the most time.

Jessica Owen
Well, I was just going to say there. I mean, I speak to a lot of people who deal with smart textiles, and that wash ability aspect is always what people find quite challenging. Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
like a lot of products, they say you can wash this 20 times, and and that doesn't seem like an answer to only something 20 times. Yeah, I'm really I want to make something that's emotionally durable, that people want to take care of and they want to keep maintaining. So that was a that's a big goal in our design.

Jessica Owen
And what have people actually said about this product then? Who have tried it on? Do they find that it really does calm them down, if ever they're stressed out and and does it help those around them to sort of understand how they're feeling?

Kristin Neidlinger
It does. And people often they don't want to take it off. It's very it's quite cozy. The fabric, I'd have to say, like, Come on, give it back. It does give insight. And I find the best thing is it provokes awareness of like, Am I really feeling red? People have to question how they are really feeling. And some people think like, oh, this is amazing. And others are like, I'm not sure if I'm feeling this way, but it opens up that question for them to even start thinking about how they're feeling. Yeah, I

Jessica Owen
imagine in a sort of, maybe, take a work environment, for example, if you're wearing it and you're, I don't know, you have a busy day, but you can't you you feel stressed, but there's so much to do that you don't necessarily pick up on it until maybe the end of the day, when you sit down and finally relax. I mean, some the mood sweater in that environment would really help to make you aware that actually maybe you should just take a breather, go and grab a cup of tea, and you'll probably feel a lot better for it.

Kristin Neidlinger
Yes, yeah, I agree, because, yeah, we get so on a roll. And I think in emotional intelligence, they call it like the escalator. You want to make sure you don't get to the top of the escalator and fall off. Make make sure you stay like in the middle of the escalator, like, monitor how you're feeling and, yeah, an advocate for self care,

Jessica Owen
right? And is there anything similar to this that's on the market already that you know of, or are you sort of the only guys making something like this?

Kristin Neidlinger
There are different mood products. Most are apps. There aren't, as you probably know, there aren't many smart textiles that are in the market.

Jessica Owen
I mean, is there, is there a demand for this sort of thing? Then

Kristin Neidlinger
there is. It's a niche, niche market, though, for sure, of the fashionistas who are really interested in the next thing. Find that kids really like it and they're really happy to put it on and experiment. But definitely, you know, the businessmen that you pitch to, like one said you've created my worst nightmare.

Jessica Owen
Oh, that's not what you want to

Kristin Neidlinger
hear. That was very funny. But I was like, actually, this product is for you, because he's so nervous of showing his emotions to other people, which I don't think is very healthy, you know, it might help him get those out and actually communicate better,

Jessica Owen
maybe. I mean, did he try it on? No,

Kristin Neidlinger
no, yeah. It was very funny, very funny pitch.

Jessica Owen
But, I mean, I guess one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast, actually, is because with COVID 19, there's a lot of I think there's a much better awareness for our health and our well being at the moment. And I wanted to sort of explore what textiles and clothing is doing in this space. And so when I came across this mood sweater in your company, it was almost exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Because I assume you said there is quite a niche market at the moment, but do you reckon, after this year and moving forward, that more and more people are going to maybe look for more products like this because they want to become more in tune with how they're feeling and and other things like mindfulness, for example. Yes,

Kristin Neidlinger
I was wishing, you know, we were further along in production, because I feel like this is the time for this kind of product. And I know a lot of biosensors are selling. I think the sales are up 30% since COVID So people can monitor their health. It's funny, this niche of E textiles, we've been working on creating this remote intimacy for a while, and I'm like, Oh, this is what we've been waiting for, but we just don't have the production at the moment. But yeah, I see, I see a lot of potential, and I have a remote touch robot. Also, it's an inflatable that connects to the keyboard. So through the keyboard, we can send the feeling of touch to another person. And that would be amazing in the zoom to keep, keep, keep you alert. And like, oh, there is, there are other people here.

Jessica Owen
Yeah, that. I mean, I've not heard of that before. That is quite interesting. But

Kristin Neidlinger
yeah, I see a lot of potential. And even with the frontline workers, I think that this would be very key to help them, like, get back into their body. That's a very high stress job right now.

Jessica Owen
You'd probably just see in A and E or in the hospital just a sea of white, if people were wearing your sweater every Otis, or see a red even,

Kristin Neidlinger
yeah, then people like, through the biofeedback, they can learn to calm themselves down. So it's so good for the workforce, because less monitoring by the nurses, if like, the sweater could help monitoring, monitor their mood. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
it really is a very interesting sort of development that you've done there. Um, I mean, you said that it all came about from your thesis, and you mentioned there some issues with production. So is this actually available for people to buy and test now, or are you still sort of working on it. Still,

Kristin Neidlinger
we have a like a rental model set up. I have 20 pieces, and so people can rent them, like museums have rented them, and we're doing research with them. I'm getting my PhD, so I've started doing a lot of research with what this means to have. Um, this extincy. That's what I call it, externalized intimacy. So that's been really good, but that's definitely slowed down. My my production,

Jessica Owen
I see, okay, um, well, like you say there, it's funny. You mentioned that you've chosen a rental model for the time being, because I think with a lot of smart textiles, that's something that people are considering. It's, it's a, I think it's a much easier way to introduce these products to people without them, maybe investing in them, which sometimes it's quite a lot of money involved in products like this. So I think that's a really interesting way of, sort of getting people used to these types of things,

Kristin Neidlinger
yeah, and then we get feedback every time. And it's been from different things, from like food tasting to like VR party. So it's just been really fascinating. Who's interested in using it? I can

Jessica Owen
imagine. Now, I also wanted to talk about some of the other things that you've got going on. I've had a bit of a snoop on your website, and I've seen it. There's, I think, something called the inflator corsets, virtual natura, haptic insoles and some other things. So do you mind just explaining about some of the other projects, projects that you've got going on, and what's sort of involved in them?

Kristin Neidlinger
Yeah, I do a lot of concept pieces. So my my master's thesis 10 years ago, it was a future speculation, and I thought, okay, by 2018 this is what we'll need in healthcare. So I still am projecting into the future of healthcare with these designs, and often I get a grant to create one for museum or just ideas I can't let go, like the haptic insoles. I did a lot of tests for proprioception, which is your awareness of where your body's in space. So I had people stepping on different things, like from pillows to like inflatables. Then I brought in some nature, some rocks and some moss. And it turned out people liked the nature the best on their bare feet. And it's always a series of explorations to develop these. Then I had them wear headphones with so they had speakers in the shoes, so they could hear the sound of their feet on the nature, and that was like instantly brought them back into their body. There is a phenomenon, it's called grounding, which is walking in the dirt that does center your body and mind. So that's that's where the natural pathos came from is being able to just go straight to the park, take the park with you.

Jessica Owen
Oh, that's interesting. I did want to have a look at those actually. I mean, they are quite wacky. When you look at them, I can't imagine anyone's going to be going to, I don't know, Nike anytime soon, looking for quite that product. But I mean, you said there that people really enjoy sort of walking on nature. And I guess, I mean, it'd be great for people living in cities, for example, who can't maybe escape to the countryside like some other people. Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
especially now with the restrictions where we weren't able to really leave our house for a while. I was like, Oh, I gotta get those out of the storage. But, yeah, when I first released those, I also got a lot of people that wanted to buy them. And I was like, I never intended to sell them, but it's more the idea. And

Jessica Owen
I mean, I mean what you're exploring there. I mean, I hope you don't mind me calling your some of your designs wacky, but I think they're just a really good way of exploring what textiles and other products can do for our mental well being, and just for our sense of I'm trying to think of the word, but just our mood well. Mood sweater. There you go. Mood, but, yeah, these products are really interesting. And I think especially those shoes with the the moss and the leaves and stuff inside them, it's just, it's something so different. I mean, what do other people think of them when they try them on? Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
the the nature shoes, the nature of pathos. People love those. And I did have them on display in a museum, and somebody tried them on, somebody took them off the pedestal. I couldn't believe it, but yeah, it was very powerful to see people try these. And that's my goal, is to get more people access, like with the mood sweater, to get that more in production, because so far we've had small groups, and it's it is really great to see people's joy and wonder, which I think is also very powerful. Step of healing is to find that joy and like that, that wacky humor, is a doorway to open to, like healing and awareness and, yeah, finding the hope. And there's

Jessica Owen
an. There's actually another project I wouldn't mind talking about. Actually, I think I saw in your website that you've just been given a design grant. Yes,

Kristin Neidlinger
the responsible design grant. Yes,

Jessica Owen
that's it. What's in, what's involved in that then? So

Kristin Neidlinger
this is a year long grant. We're finishing it up now remotely. So this was a co design with intellectually impaired clients. So we worked with a center called deeper ball, and they have severely impaired clients. And we were working with an age group from 18 to 25 and most are non verbal and in wheelchairs, and the diagnosis varied, but they're all super unique. But it was such a gift to work with these clients. There were seven, and my goal with the technology is to give the body a voice, and it was great to work with these non verbal clients to see if we could actually create some connection and dialog with them. And the results so far have been amazing. Because, yeah, every time we try something new, you just don't know, but they really they did like the mood sweater. We had the collar and and then we had the touch robot, which they ended up loving. That touch robot. So I'm so happy that they they liked and we tried, you know, series of different things, and now we're creating the final piece. And it's really cool because there's multi sensory rooms that were actually developed in the Netherlands and like the 90s, and now we're making it's called Octa u reactee room, like a room to make people more active and focused. So it's really fun, really fun development

Jessica Owen
there. It's interesting that you're working with people with disabilities as well, because I find that maybe this group in particular aren't really sort of catered to as well, maybe as they should be. For example, I think when it comes to just, I think it was Tommy Hilfiger, actually, they started a collection of just clothes that are easier to get on and off, because even simple things like that can be a bit of a challenge. And it's interesting that you're now working with this group as well to see what you can do in this area. It's very cool. Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
I feel honored. Yeah, I've gotten to know their parents, their caregivers, and the caregivers in the center, and, um, yeah, it's so interesting just to translate how they're feeling. Because there's one we're trying the touch robot, with one client, and the caregiver said, Look at his eyes. He loves it. And I was like, okay, and then I looked at his eyes were darting all over, and that was, like, his excitement level is amazing. It's like he does like, it

Jessica Owen
is cool that you can sort of translate things like that and so that others around them can understand, because there is a bit of a barrier there between people so that, yeah, that's really interesting, that you can do that, yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
because we are also unique. You know, that's what it reminds me of, is everybody has their own communication style, but it's, I'm looking to find the fundamentals of this. That's my part of my PhD work too, is finding the fundamental communication of your mood.

Jessica Owen
And when do you hope to finish your PhD? Well, it was

Kristin Neidlinger
supposed to be this year, but I think COVID is pushing it back a little bit. But yeah, I'm working a lot remotely, so hopefully early next year.

Jessica Owen
Well, fingers crossed. Good luck. And so obviously, we were just talking about there, how this can be. Your research is looking at people with disabilities. It's looking at how to sort of Express mood in different people. And you said that your designs aren't really available to buy. They're mainly in museums or they're in the research stage. I mean, if you were to get these things onto the market, would it be more tailored to the healthcare sector? Yeah,

Kristin Neidlinger
it's definitely like one step beyond the mindfulness trend that's happening now with apps. I feel like that's our market is, yeah, people that are interested in learning more about themselves, healthcare is a little tricky with the restrictions, you know, the certifications, but would be amazing to get them in clinics. And I guess part of this grant, we're creating a kit that, like different care centers, could buy so they would have their multi sensory active room, perhaps in a hospital or like a digital spa of the future, is what I'm thinking. You know, healthcare spa, but it's digital and very reactive to you and other people.

Jessica Owen
I mean, how far in the future do you reckon it will be until we actually until that idea could become a reality?

Kristin Neidlinger
It could be in. Now, I thought it'd be two years ago, but, but, yeah, it's a I think it's a little slower to open, open our minds to new like people are nervous about their bio data and privacy right now. That's a big concern. What

Jessica Owen
I was going to ask you actually about, what are some of the challenges and barriers that you experience when it comes to your research and privacy, then you say, is quite a big issue. Then what other things are sort of affecting your work, or things hurdles that you need to jump over? Well,

Kristin Neidlinger
the E Textiles is a new industry, so a lot of big manufacturing companies don't do it yet. They say it's it's just a communication issue between textile and electronics, and so it's finding the manufacturers to do it. Small run is okay, yeah, definitely the privacy issues, but we share so much on on the internet, so I feel like that's in time be more relaxed. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
it doesn't make sense that you can post pictures online, give your name, even where you live, and things like that out, and then you're worried about maybe people accessing your heartbeat. I mean, what can they do with your heartbeat? For example, other than feeling vulnerable in just your emotional well being. I can't see, maybe I'm just naive, but I can't see why that would be such an issue. Yeah, it

Kristin Neidlinger
is kind of like a fingerprint. Your heartbeat is very unique to you, but we don't really use that to open our doors yet or but we could. But, yeah, it can be simplified, so it's not so personal, and that's what we're trying to make it very simple. And so it's a color. It's not exactly your your heart rate. It's a color from, you know, from 60 beats per minute to 70 beats per minute. It's one color. So it's not, we wouldn't be taking your exact heart rate data, and that way we make it fun, turning it to color or like inflatables or audio. It's a way to, yeah, really give your body a voice. Learning about yourself in a fun way is the goal.

Jessica Owen
Well, I mean, it sounds like you've got so many ideas and and visions of of what you'd like to do and what's possible, but I mean, what are the next steps then for the company? I mean, what exactly is the ultimate goal, and is there anything that you'd really like to to develop a solution for that maybe isn't quite possible yet? Well, I

Kristin Neidlinger
would love to when I I've been doing a lot of different studies with my PhD, and it would be great to have the product when I published my book, my thesis book, that would be amazing. I really would like to create this sensory gym that would be possible with some funding, you know, funding and planning, but to just have kind of like a nautilus gym, where you have your different areas and like, Oh, now I'll go to the mood area, and now I'll go to the haptic touch area, because I I respond more to touch. You get to align your nervous system, and then you can pop back out in the world to be your optimal you.

Jessica Owen
Yeah, no, it sounds very interesting, quite, quite complex as well, if I must say so, Kristin, we're sort of running out of time. But I mean, what do you personally like to do, other than your research and maybe putting on your own mood sweater? What do you like to do to look after your own health and well being?

Kristin Neidlinger
Well, I meditate every day, and I exercise one hour a day. I think self care is very important. Yeah, I still love dancing.

Jessica Owen
What type of dancing? Ballet, salsa. What is it you like to say now? 

Kristin Neidlinger
I really love Samba, salsa. Ah, it puts me in the best mood. It's like instant good mood.

Jessica Owen
I can understand that. It's nice music as well. Well, Kristen. I mean, I think we're sort of, as I said, sort of coming to an end now. But, I mean, I'm so pleased that we finally got a chance to do this, because to those listening Kristen has been you're in California, where the wildfires are, and we've been having a bit of trouble trying to organize this, but it's been great to hear all about sensory and what you're doing and so yes, thank you very much for joining me today, and good luck with your PhD as well. Okay,

Kristin Neidlinger
thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.