Ep. 38: Hemp Black: Meeting the demand for safety and sustainability Ankit Podcast

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Ep. 38: Hemp Black: Meeting the demand for safety and sustainability

In this episode of The WTiN Podcast, we talk to Mark Sunderland, chief innovation officer at Hemp Black, and Alex Capano, chief science officer at its parent company Ecofibre.

Jessica Owen
Hello. My name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTIN, and this is the WTIN podcast. 2020 has been a challenging year for everyone so far. Therefore, for this series, I'll be exploring the innovative ways in which companies are using Textiles and Apparel to improve our health and well being. This week, I am joined by Mark Sunderland and Alex Capano from the company Hemp Black, the pair talk about so much in this episode, from the company's beginnings technologies that they have developed with hemp to their new face masks and gaiters that are currently being used to help reduce the spread of the Coronavirus.

Well, good afternoon, guys. Lovely to have you on the show today, all the way from America. I understand. So how are you both? How's everything over there hanging in there?

Mark Sunderland
Yeah, we're hanging in there. But, you know, as the world is changing. So we and, you know, doing doing. Okay, good,

Jessica Owen
good. I'm glad to hear it now, Mark, do you mind just telling me a bit about yourself and Alex, I'll come to you just so for those listening, we can sort of get a picture of what you both do for the company. Exactly.

Mark Sunderland
Yes, I'm Mark Sunderland. I'm presently the Chief Innovation Officer for hemp black eco fiber, and I am also the chief sustainability officer for eco fiber. Those are my roles within the companies. We all wear many hats at Eco fiber and hemp black. So we're called on to do many different things that sometimes are outside of our our jobs and happy to do them. But my background is in high performance, textiles, apparel, industrial materials, basically on the on the textile product side. Presently also a professor at Thomas Jefferson University in textile engineering and textile product science. So that's how we'll talk a little bit about how we came involved on the project itself. Okay?

Jessica Owen
And Alex, what about you? Then? What exactly you do?

Alex Capano
I'm the Chief Science Officer at Eco fiber, and as Mark said, we do all wear many hats in this organization. My responsibilities primarily focus on research and application of that research through, you know, real world commercialization opportunities. So presently, I'm helping to run a few phase two clinical trials looking at hemp's medicinal applications. I completed a trial last year as well and published that at the end of 2019 I also educate both clinicians and consumers on the science of this topic, and work in product development and various research initiatives, whether it's clinical or with Mark's team On the textile side as well,

Jessica Owen
right? Well, you both sound very busy people, then it's a lot on your plate. Now, I do know a little bit about you guys, as I did get the chance to speak to, I think your Managing Director, Eric Wang, not, not long ago for an article. But for those listening who have never heard of you, do you mind just sort of summarizing what it is that hemp Black does exactly,

Mark Sunderland
yeah, I mean, so hemp Black is a sustainable performance technology and material company. We are the leading edge of hemp based research, I would believe in the world, hemp Black is a is a company that evolves commercialization and which enhances the hemp technology, enhances the commercialization process through where our products lie right now. So hemp Black was research based in the beginning. It has now come, in the last couple of years, has come to a commercialized, commercialized platform. Not everybody understands it. Jess all the time, because our our technology is based on certain other factors in the hemp plant. I want to say that Amanda, or eco fiber, hemp, black as we are, is the whole hemp company, meaning that, you know, we don't always just look at the fiber. Many people think that we are taking the fiber and utilizing that in these high performance materials. We're using other very diverse, performance driven assets of the hemp plant to deliver that back to our commercials, commercialized products, and to the consumer. I have a saying that I started, you know, some time ago, when I started this research that hemp Black is not you're a scratchy, crunchy, I'm going to smoke my T shirt, kind of hemp company. And that's that, and it's still true today. And and, you know, I want to think that, you know, based on, you know, our my background, and when we started the research on hemp black, that I was able to look at the hemp, the hemp plant, and all the assets that that hemp, the lip, brings with it, and certainly evolve those assets into a commercialized process that was ready for the supply chain. And that was a very important point for myself, so things didn't get caught up in research upon research and benchtop upon benchtop, that we were able to commercialize products very quickly.

Alex Capano
Jess, it might be helpful to give you a little bit of the background on eco fiber and how hemp Black was born, if you're interested. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
yeah. I was gonna say, how do all these different companies sort of fit in with each other? 

Alex Capano
So eco fiber was actually born about 20 years ago in Australia, and our founder went all around the world researching different hemp genetics and collected what is the largest, at least privately, and I think the largest, generally, collection of hemp genetics In the world. So we do have that IP, years later, a man called Barry Lambert, who is our chairman in Eco fiber, his granddaughter, was very, very sick with Dravet Syndrome, which is a severe form of pediatric epilepsy, and they read about the hemp oils or extracts, particularly those rich in CBD, that could potentially help his granddaughter. And he actually went to Europe and brought it back, technically, illegally, to Australia. This is a very public story, and gave it to his granddaughter, or, I believe his son actually may have given it to his daughter, and she her seizure stopped. And he's a very successful businessman, but a true philanthropist. And you know, recognized people need to have access to this, and it needs to have more research around its applications, and I want to make sure that people can get this treatment without breaking the law. So he not only funded from his own pockets, a lot of comprehensive research, both in Australia in the US on cannabis, but also joined eco fiber, and then really took over eco fiber as chairman and brought in ERIC Wong, our CEO. That was really just a few years ago, and that really changed the company. So they saw, because of the laws, more of an opportunity for both research and commercialization in the US than in Australia at the time, and looked again, as Mark said, at the whole hemp plant. So we under the Eco fiber umbrella, we have different divisions, and we have a food company, for example, and that's going to use the seeds from the hemp plant, which have, you know, a lot of nutritional benefits. And then we have a health company that uses the extract from the flowers of the plants to deliver nutraceuticals from hemp extracts, or CBD rich extracts, and then hemp Black is, you know, you can think of it as the herd using just the textile. But as Mark said, again, it's really not only using the fibers from the hemp plant, incorporating these other elements of the hemp plant into really innovative delivery systems for these textiles that can deliver different performance needs. So eco fiber is the parent company, and then we have the three subsidiaries of health food and fiber with hemp black and I. Actually met Barry and Eric at Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. So I'm a Family NP, and have been seeing patients exclusively for years, and started to learn more about the potential medicinal applications of cannabinoids that are found in the hemp plan through my patient care. So I tried to find a place that would actually allow me to pursue a doctorate in cannabinoid science. And the only time, the only place at the time that would allow this was Thomas Jefferson University. And when I asked to study this, I wasn't sure if I'd be laughed out of the room. But in fact, they said we are starting the first comprehensive academic center focused on this, and you can be the first student. So I had a really unprecedented opportunity there. And that center is now called the Lambert Center for the Study of medicinal cannabis and hemp. And out of that, we met Mark, and hemp Black was born. So does that hopefully help give a little bit more background how this all came together? Yeah.

Jessica Owen
I mean, there's just so much more to the story than I originally thought. I mean, obviously I've been on your website and I've tried to, you know, do my homework and everything, but, yeah, I would never have found realized all of that behind it. There's, I mean, you've covered all eight bases there with what this plant can do for people. If you've got food, health, you've even got textiles. So, yeah, it's a very cool business that you've got going. So today, then I well, I primarily want to talk about hemp, black obviously, being in the textile and apparel industry, and you have quite a few different innovations from what I've seen. And I was wondering if you wouldn't mind if we start talking about your element product first. So I think this is a new material that has many different properties. And so I was just wondering if you could tell me more about this and what is sort of involved, yeah,

Mark Sunderland
yeah. Jess, I hope you can appreciate that. You know, I can't, I can't get into grave detail, but we, out of this research, we have two issued patents and an additional seven in provisional patents. So that's, you know, that's extremely important and helping us to protect, protect our our technology. And we'll start off with hemp black element. First. Hemp black element is, is a thermoplastic based fiber that uses different master batch technologies and the hemp, the hemp flower extract, as part of the matrix of these fibers. And we're able to create fibers from very, very fine fibers with high, high flapability, high high flexibility, great drape, wicking, moisture management, Comfort Control, but also deliver a level of of anti bacteria and anti odor as part of their delivery system. So so hemp black element is certainly one of the products that we have, that we have initiated, first in our in our in our product line, because those fibers and those materials can inform products across a broad range of classifications and markets, including from health care to athletic and performance to interiors. So when you know, just as a side note, the new facility, the new campus that we built, the Eco fiber campus in Georgetown, Kentucky, that was just finished, which will be LEED Platinum certified in the next couple of weeks, that building throughout its infrastructure, including the materials, the textiles, the outdoor turf, the the chairs, the vegan leather, all are enhanced, and all have hemp black technology throughout so under building is a great statement piece when it comes to how what we are doing with our technology and How we are are utilizing our technology in a commercial in a and certainly in a commercial setting, in a high performance world. So we hemp black element was our first, one of our first products that we, we came out with because we could inform, we could inform a large contingent of products under the hemp black element product line.

Jessica Owen
And I guess as well, it's probably the easiest product for people like myself to sort of get their heads around as well, which is quite handy when you're trying to explain what you guys are doing. Yeah,

Mark Sunderland
and I do, I do want to say that you know sustainability and and what we what we are doing. And. How we are doing. It is very important throughout the product. And the one product that's not listed on here, Jess, is sustainability. Sustainable. In my initial research, sustainability was the first product. So if I couldn't explain how, how sustainable the material was, how great it was for the environments that I would just be butting my head up against other materials out there in the marketplace. So I felt it very, I felt very compelled that the research start and start leading with sustainability as a measure to bring all these other technologies, you know, onto the platform. So it's always, it's always looking at, what can we do, what's inventive, what's in our process. But it always goes ties back to sustainability. And as we know, we have all the great data around the hemp plant and how it grows, and it's in in the way it sequesters carbon, uses less water. So there's a lot of data there that we have developed really great a great format and a great platform for we are looked at as authorities in that area. So sustainability is a plus one added on to all these products.

Jessica Owen
Well, it's funny, you say that because I spoke to someone recently, and they said, for any new company starting out these days, they said it's just irresponsible to not even try to be sustainable or have a better practice of some sort. So it sounds like you guys are definitely on that same page.

Alex Capano
Absolutely.

Mark Sunderland
Yeah. I mean, and I gotta, I gotta say that, you know, looking at the hemp fiber, looking at the actual fiber that was coming off the plant, and trying to manipulate that into textiles. All my research kept leading, and I just had a conversation with some industry people a couple of days ago about the amount of water it takes in order to get the fiber off to make one hemp t shirt. So we're not quite there yet. You know, certainly globally. So that's where, you know, I had to take all that great sustainability data and sort of turn it on its head, and then take all the other technology that was available to me, through the through through hemp, and through the plan itself, and deliver that back to this commercialized platform.

Jessica Owen
Okay, right. Well, I kind of wanted to talk about another your another of your technologies as well today, and I think it's called Eco to the power six. I'm not sure how you would pronounce that, but that's what it looks like.

Mark Sunderland
Yeah, eco six. That's really kind of the Eco six is kind of the, I want to say, the first child of hemp black eco six is a carbon that uses the biomass from the hemp plant, and we're able to to paralyze it. Paralyzing is a form of of the operation of of making hemp into carbon, and eco six became, you know, was very important in in the maturation, because eco six led to ink. But eco six is our, is our, is our carbon that uses the biomass from the hemp plant, as I stated, but we use a paralysis system that then we grind, we're able to grind down to the Eco six to sub micron particle levels. And what is very interesting about that is that we we have some really great ink products that are sustainable. We have conductivity that's driven through the Eco six. And recently, our Eco six carbon was certified Cradle to Cradle platinum as a carbon product. It's the first carbon product that was certified by Cradle to Cradle. So we are very proud of that, and and we have certainly a lot of companies looking and asking about eco six, just just from that, because it could be a replacement for other petroleum based carbons that are out there in the world. So we can produce this at scale. We can produce this commercially, you know, and and we're really, we're, you can. We're pushing eco six into fiber form, which will happen soon. But we're very, very happy that you know where we are with with the platform of eco six right now and the delivery mechanisms that we can use,

Jessica Owen
right I think this is a pretty stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So you mentioned it can be made into fiber form. So what exactly does it do? At the moment, I'm sort of getting a bit confused about it. What's that ego six, yeah, so it's, you're saying it's like an activated carbon. But what exactly is that?

Mark Sunderland
Right? So it's an activated carbon, so it's carbon particles that are made from the biomass from the hemp plant, and those carbon part. Because you can grind them down to sub micron particle level, can be constituted and reused in a variety of commercial materials, including fibers, ink processes, digital 3d printing. You know, an enormous amount of of different techniques within the within the textile world,

Jessica Owen
okay, right? That makes a lot more sense now. And it's very cool, actually,

Mark Sunderland
yeah, and even can be used as a colorant. So in our new building, we used eco six as a colorant for the for the for the metal that was, you know, part of the, you know, the desks and tables. The Eco six our carbon was also used to print our wallpaper in the new building and and so and we're also doing some some testing and research on developing our conductivity properties that come from our Eco six carbon in a variety of different in in a variety of different ways, when it comes to being able to print our carbon as a conductive material. 

Jessica Owen
Well, it sounds like an incredibly diverse sort of product. Then, um, so ink, that's enough of your products, and you've mentioned it already. So how does that tie into everything?

Mark Sunderland
So yeah, so the ink was a is, was a byproduct of going through the carbonization process, so going through the Eco six process, of of taking our materials and getting it down to its lowest possible denominator. So the ink was really an offshoot of that, because I had a lot of experience in the printing world, from digital to analog printing on a variety of different substrates. I work with some of the biggest commercial partners globally on printing and and so when I was trying to, you know, as the research was what's happening with eco six, and trying to get the particle size down to a certain level so it can be reconstituted back into fibers. There was this whole other, I want to say, micron level, or size of the carbon that we started testing printing with, and we were able to successfully print, you know, on textiles using our carbon. So it was hat the ink was a happy accident, so to speak,

Alex Capano
pleasant surprise, a pleasant surprise.

Mark Sunderland
But the ink we use, we're using, you know, certainly water based binders we're trying to our ink process is using less water throughout the process, but also our carbon has a very high surface area, so a surface to weight ratio, or a length to weight ratio, is enormous. It's like, you know, you know, one micron particle size is like playing on 32 football fields in surface area, so to speak. So well. 

Alex Capano
There's also that sustainability element as well. Mark I'm doesn't all so much black ink come from petroleum right now? Yes,

Mark Sunderland
yeah, most of the black ink comes from petroleum based, right? So, in our ink comes from the actual the biomass that's left over from the hemp. So, so I want to, I want to make that indication, because that's a good point that Alex brings up, and that's what led us to So, the, the, you know, the the one main material in the ink is obviously eco six. And eco six was Cradle to Cradle certified. So our carbon that goes into other ink products, those companies or ourselves. Whoever puts our carbon in those ink products are is also putting in a Cradle to Cradle certified carbon as well. So companies who want to work with us, especially on the inside, really have a head start on the sustainability plan, because we've done all the work and and we really think that that's a big as Alex mentioned, it's a big asset for for our product mix, both for eco six and for our ink products.

Jessica Owen
And I mean, have you guys had quite a lot of interest in this product then, because the dyeing industry is probably one of the most well known for, sort of how polluting it is. So I imagine there are a lot of people out there sort of looking for solutions like this, yeah,

Mark Sunderland
and I have to say, if we go back to our our element product, our element product, you know, we don't, we don't, we don't diet in 1000s of gallons of water, just we, we actually, we actually constitute the dye as part of the fiber matrix. So it's what we call a solution dyed materials. So the dye is part of the genetics. So we're looking at, we're looking at less water consumption all the way around. I think in May, our fiber manufacturing process we, you know, we're, we're down to the lowest amount of water levels used to color. Our materials as anybody else is in the world. And you know, you're going to find more companies moving towards, you know, the way they color textiles, because the amount of fresh water needed to dye textiles, as we know, is, you know, it's, it's unfathomable when you think about how much water it takes to dye one cotton t shirt. I mean, everybody has access to the internet. You can look it up and check it out. But, you know, we're really trying, striving hard to not only deliver all these performance fabrics, but also deliver performance and efficacy. And have something feel good, and have the consumer want to buy in to the experience. You know, from all sides that not they put on something that feels great, but they also feel good about what they put on. So, so, yeah, so when we we talk about these processes on element in Eco six and Inc, you know, using less water, using less natural resources, you know, you know, the world isn't inventing, you know, any more isn't coming up with any more dye plants because the amount of fresh water use. So we all have to figure out ways in which we can have great textiles, we can have great materials, we can have great fashion, and we also can get delivered back to the consumer, great color, great performance, great hand and using, you know, getting down to every garment should use less than a cup of water it takes to make it.

Jessica Owen
No, it's very impressive, very cool. I wish more people were sort of doing that well, trying to come up with solutions like that. And now, I mean, you've got a couple more products as well, but I'm not sure we've probably got time to go through everything, although I'd quite like to, so you've got Hide, hide as well, which is sort of a an alternative to leather. And I think there's another one called Nano as well, which, I mean, I understand that sort of got insect repellency, Odin neutralizing property. So, I mean, there's so many things that you guys are sort of covering, yeah.

Mark Sunderland
So, so the hide quickly is is is about taking vegan leather that is presently in our commercial supply chain, and we're able to use our our hemp black technology, to come up with anti Otis, anti bacteria, vegan leather, also our vegan leather also on the back of it uses As a backing. We, we reclaimed all the green bottles, working through a company called UniFi here in the United States. We took green bottles that were going to go into the waste stream, and we ground those down, and we made a fiber out of those green bottles, and we made a fabric using the green bottles, and backed our vegan leather with those green bottle technology. So it's very I love the story, because the backing of our leather is green. It's very signature. Nobody else is doing it, but be able to work with a company and being able to reclaim what would have gone into the ocean or the waste stream, you know, in a very bad way for sure, we are able to reclaim those green bottles, used a green color as a signature piece on the vegan leather. So you'll see more of our products delivered back this green bottle technology, because we just love the sustainability story and that we were actually able to to actually capture trash and turn it into something good. And the Nano uses is a nano, obviously, in the word in itself, the fibers in nano are very, very small. We're able to position these fibers to either give you water repellency, breathability. We have micro pores inside the fiber, but the but again, the Nano film in our testing, and certainly on our commercial platform, delivers anti bacteria and anti odor, and we've had success in insect repellency in our nano film. So the film can be bonded to any of the other, any material it can be bonded to, a warp knit, a weft knit fabrics, a woven to give you that that that protection that's needed. But everything we're doing is very is plant based and green. So I want to say that, you know, we are not using heavy metals in our process. So a lot of these technologies that we call out, like anti Otis or anti bacterial uses metals in the process and in our manufacturing process of of our own products here, element eco, six, Inc, hide and nano, we are not using any metals. All of our technology is delivered through what the hemp plant can give us.

Alex Capano
You know, we were studying the antimicrobial potential of these materials for some time, and certainly in our current world, that is becoming more and more necessary, and there's more interest in having a. Materials that will hopefully reduce spread of infection and just to provide cleaner, materials that are safer for the consumer who may be sitting on it or wearing on it or wearing it, but also just safer in general, that they're not necessarily going to be vectors of disease, and that has been just a really promising area that we fortunately were looking into well before 2020 so it's a green way to deliver something that I think we all realize now more than ever that we do need.

Jessica Owen
Well, it's funny, because when I was looking when I first came across your company, I thought, well, I saw what you were doing in terms of UV protection, insect repellent technologies, Oda, for example. And I thought, Oh, you'd be a really good fit for talking about this idea of health and wellness and everything. And then when you add the sustainability, I mean, you guys are also responsible for sort of looking after the environment health as well. And like you just said, there, Alex, another thing that's come up because of 2020. Is COVID 19. And now you guys have got that ability to sort of help do something there as well. And I think you've actually gone and created a face mask and a gator as well.

Mark Sunderland
Yes, yeah, that, yeah, yeah, we so I'll take you through the through the process, and then Alex can talk a little bit about the science side of the Gators and masks and why they were important today's world. But we were, we were, you know, in in March and April, Jess we were, we were straight away on our, on our hemp black lifestyle brand and athletic brand. And then COVID 19 happened in March, and we saw much of our supply chain start to shrink. And, you know, and we saw, we saw what was evident at the end of March, that, you know, we needed to do something. We needed to to make a make a shift here. So one thing that's very important about our company is that, you know, we are vertical. So we are presently making our own master batch technology and yarns in Greensboro, North Carolina. We also have our our fabrication facilities in Greensboro as well. So we were very fortunate in that regard. So we decided to shift. We decided to take the yarns that were going to go, that were going headed towards our apparel line, and re look at them for mass technology. And when we, when we thought about making masks, it became very apparent to that, you know, you don't have the labor force to make masks, so cut and sew was out of the question. So we used our, our our advanced ticing technology at our at our facility, and used our, our hemp black element yarn technology, and using advancing our 3d knitting as well. And we developed the mask. We went from product to concept in about four weeks. But what was, what was very helpful for the mask, for uplifting our mask, and certainly our sales and delivering to the consumer, was is that it forced us to certainly come out with a product, but that product still had to be as elegant as everything that we were doing on an apparel side. So it still had to speak to sustainability. It just couldn't be something that was made and hurried. So we gave a lot of thought process to it. And when I say that we went from product to concept in four weeks, and I say that we put a lot of thought process into it. Just think about that's the only thing you think about 24 hours a day for four weeks. And so, yeah, in the 3d knitting technology, there is zero waste there as well. So our mass so there's not a there's not a lot of waste on the floor. So we go from yarn, we go from design to fabrication to product, very quickly. But what was very helpful is an end to health already had distribution channels. They have a wonderful distribution network through pharmacies that was able to take the mask and to distribute them through those distribution channels. So that really helped sales. And certainly, you know, that was that helped propel, you know, hemp black while we were going through COVID. And quite frankly, it has been quite a success. And then we use, then we added the gator technology on after the mass, as we continue to do mask, even to this day. But it still offers all the same technology and great hemp black experience, either in the mask or in the gator. And, you know, I'll let Alex explain a little bit about the science behind the mask. And you know what we are doing there to, you know, get people educated about mask wearing. 

Alex Capano
So the mask of. Um is actually on the outside infused with a material called coupon so that is an EPA registered antimicrobial copper material that is delivered in a more innovative and successful way than other copper materials, where they may leach out in the laundering process or just over time, may not be effective in that they're not actually coming into contact with microbes, or what we want them to come in contact with to actually exert their effects. So the coupon, it just adds another protective layer to the outside of the masks. And then our hemp extract that is cannabinoid rich. So cannabinoids are these organic molecules that are found in the flower of the plant. The most well known are CBD and THC. But there are many, many cannabinoids. Those in themselves, are actually anti microbial and have quite a lot of health benefits, some more well established than others. So the purpose of this is to really make the mask wearing experience more pleasant and certainly safer where someone's not taking their mask on and off, putting it down, touching their face and potentially introducing a source of infection, even whether that's, you know, SARS, cov two into their mucous membranes because of their mask. So we want that mask to be safer, but we also and cleaner, but we want people to wear it more, and I think it's pretty undeniable that the science has confirmed that widespread mask wearing is going to decrease the spread of infection and make us all get Back to normal sooner, and ideally save lives. But it's not always the most pleasant experience when you're getting, you know, mask knee, which is a new word in 2020 and just irritations on the face and redness and flaking and all of that, not only can that lead to skin breakdown and cause infection. But also, you know, people are taking off their masks because they're uncomfortable. So the technology in these masks actually allows the wearer to prevent some of those side effects of frequent and long term mask wearing, while also keeping the mask itself cleaner and therefore reducing that as a vector of disease. So, you know, we want our user to be healthier. We want their surroundings to be healthier because they're opting to wear the mask. And then, from a sustainability standpoint, I, you know, I read in, I think it was the Guardian a month or so ago, that there's more masks in the ocean right now than jellyfish, and so it's certainly a problem. And I think we're going to see these long term environmental impacts from COVID that are negative. And we want to provide solutions for that. So it's it's pretty remarkable that Mark and his team were able to get this together in just a few weeks time, because it really does solve a lot of problems that are urgent right now. Yeah,

Jessica Owen
no, it's such a quick turnaround. And I think it's been the same case for everyone, really, as soon as this hit, I mean, there just wasn't any time to think about it. You just had to get on with the situation and come up with a solution. And it's, it's quite interesting to see that when you're not given time, you can still manage it. So yeah, that. That's interesting too. But yeah, what you said there about the the mask and the gator I think the comfort element is incredibly important. I mean, I know myself, I went to visit my grandmother the week, and it was a five hour train journey, and you have to wear a mask in the UK on public transport, and that wasn't fun. So I would very much have appreciated a mask like that, I think, at the time. And I mean, for you guys, you mentioned a little while back that you were focusing on active wear at the beginning of all this. So where are you with that? And has the face mask maybe helped raise awareness of the company? Yeah,

Mark Sunderland
I think so. I mean, I think that the face mask helped to wear awareness, helped to bring awareness to the company in a variety of ways. I mean, it's in hemp. Black is in distribution channels we never thought possible. You know, back 456, months ago. But the act of where is coming it's kind of certainly everybody on Instagram and on social. Media has been very anxious for it. We've had a great, wonderful certainly, sales and following on our masks and gators right now, but we are coming out with a lifestyle active travel line that will have our mask and Gator technology built into it. So we're very excited about this. We're very excited about bringing protection to to to comfortable, performance driven apparel, 

Alex Capano
good looking too. Come on. We want it to look yeah, it's gotta look good,

Mark Sunderland
right? So, so you know, and all the materials that you know you would feel comfortable in, and you know where, you know where we might have a gator built into the hood of a jacket, or cuffs extend out so you can grab handles and bars and knobs. But it all looks good while you're doing it, and it's well designed and well thought out. And even the linings, you know, the the waistbands of your yoga pants or where you put your cell phone pocket, is all going to have hemp elect technology, the same technology that is in our masking gators is going to follow its way through to this PPE fashion apparel travel line. We feel very positive about this. And again, we had to really work hard to turn this, you know, to turn this around, and we're really looking at a launch later on in the fall of this line. So we felt we wanted to continue with the PPE having success there, but really wanted to bring the PPE to a more fashion forward experience driven by our technology and and the performance values that we bring So and, you know, we're content. Where can we're continuing to sell the mass in the Gators that that's now happening globally. Are our companies in Australia are having great success selling, selling the mass as well. So we think that this, this line of apparel, will meet the demand that the customers want to feel look great, as Alex said, but they also want to feel safe. And you know, we're going to it's going to be well, well defined, and that the technology is, is is built and concealed in ways that, you know, make the garments look fabulous without making them look like a, you know, like a PPE gown, let's say so. So anyway, that's that's going to happen. But that was the Gators and masks were the forerunner of that thought process, for sure. So, yeah, lots have has changed. Jess. I mean, if there was no COVID And we take away what happened over the last six months, we could be on a very different platform or level. And, you know, nobody wants to. I mean, we're sad for what happened in the world, for sure, but if we're able to help protect people and make sustainable products, and people, you know, in a product that is not, you know, you know, is not disposable, but people can wash it and still feel safe after each and every use, and they can still look good. You know, we want to follow that, that brand experience, through to our apparel line as well, and we think that's very important. And you know, I'm not saying COVID Certainly refocused a lot of people's thinking. And I want to say that COVID, you know, we, we're gonna, we are. It's, I'm not gonna say it refocused our thinking, but, you know, it made you think more about, you know, how people experience your brand in a different way. And I think we've been very smart about that.

Jessica Owen
No, it sounds it definitely and I mean, like you said there, I mean, I think for me, it's definitely made me think differently about things. And I know our company are currently in the midst of organizing a virtual trade show, so that's one way in which we've had to sort of think differently about what we do as a company. So I think, I think this whole pandemic, yes, it's been quite a crisis, to say the least, but it, for some people, it has given them the chance to look at new opportunities and take advantage of that and turn it into something, something better. And so, yeah, I mean, guys, I we're sort of running out of time. I mean, there's so many questions I had left to ask you, but I don't think we're going to have time. But, I mean, before we before we wrap up, I've been asking everyone this just at the end. But what do you both personally like to do to sort of unwind and look after your own health?

Mark Sunderland
You want to start? Alex, 

Alex Capano
Sure. I actually, I do Pilates, which is lovely because you can do it at home or outside, and there's plenty of streaming apps that allow you to recover from a. Work From Home setup that may not be ergonomically favorable, which is certainly mine. And so, you know, I think moving your body and stretching your body and exercise is so important. And my other thing, just for me, I actually do crosswords, and I read a lot of novels. I sound very cool, but that's the truth.

Jessica Owen
Do you know what you're laughing at that? And that's exactly what I do. I don't know what it is. Well, I think my grandparents always used to do the crossword in the in the daily paper. And I don't know whether it's because they did it that I find it quite comforting to do it as well. But yeah, I know maybe, maybe they're coming back. He knows.

Alex Capano
I think so we're on to something. Jess, yeah,

Jessica Owen
and what about you, Mark? Are you a Pilates or a crossword kind of guy?

Mark Sunderland
No, I wouldn't say that. So I'm, I'm very active, athletic. I enjoy working out, walks, hiking, biking, and I certainly love my rescue dogs. You know, they are, they're awesome. I'm a dog lover. But you know, I want to say, you know, we all like to try to get from, get away from work, but I have to say that my, my my life and my work around hemp black are, are one in the same, so to speak. And I certainly want to continue on this journey. And that's what, you know, I unwind by thinking about, what are the possibilities and and I think that that is, you know, that's, you know, that's what keeps me going. And, you know, being Chief Innovation Officer, I guess, I guess that's my part of my duty, or job is to, is to do that. But no, it's, it gives me a lot of it. It brings a lot of relief to my life, especially when we have such a great team at Eco fiber. But yeah, I wouldn't say that. You know, hemp black and my life are, you know, one of the same. They're intertwined. And, you know, you sprinkle in, you sprinkle in, on top of all that, a little Netflix and and you have delivered a happy person. 

Alex Capano
Well, you know, Mark its, when we're able to bring solutions, it's it is comforting and helps you unwind. Because I think right now, there's such a sense of lack of control over so much that when you can offer some solutions to some problems, it really helps you regain a bit of that sense of control in the world.

Mark Sunderland
Yeah, right, and we never, kind of get away from it, because every time you're thinking about, what can we do about this? And you know, something else is in your life, Alex, that revolves around the babies, and you're like, Well, you know, why can't we invent a material that does that? So it always keeps you, it always keeps you thinking and guessing. And, you know,

Alex Capano
yeah, bring me a textile for diaper rash. Mark,

Mark Sunderland
but certainly, you know, you know, I think that we're on on the right trajectory here. And certainly, you know, we feel very good about what the future can bring for eco fiber, hemp, black, and all of its brands.

Jessica Owen
Well, I mean, it sounds like both of you are very well suited to the jobs that you do. And it sounds like such a almost a dream job. You talk about it in such a great way, and you're almost inspiring me to maybe, you know, get into something different. But hey, I'm here to tell your story. So that's quite cool in itself.

Mark Sunderland
I think that, you know, when you think about Alex, and I's experience, we were able to evolve ourselves in a way that, you know, was able to enhance the company. But we had a lot of freedoms, and we still have a lot of them. We're very grateful for those freedoms. And I think those freedoms of of what made us the either the employees or the people that we are.

Jessica Owen
Well, I mean, guys, it's been such a jam packed show, really today. I mean, we've definitely gone over time, but it's worth a while. And as I said, there's probably so many more questions that I could have asked, but I feel like I've learned so much about what you do and what's possible. So thank you very much to you both for coming on the show today and sort of telling me everything there is to know about hemp black it's been great. 

Mark Sunderland
And Jess, if you send me your address, I will be happy to send you a hemp black care package. 

Jessica Owen
Oh, well, I mean, that's worth doing the podcast for, isn't it

Mark Sunderland
sounds like I just paid for the podcast, but that's not true.

Jessica Owen
No, that'd be much appreciated. Thank you very much.

Alex Capano
Yeah, we'll make that commute more comfortable for your next visit.