Ep. 64: Evolution St Louis creates ‘jobs of the future’ Ankit Podcast

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Ep. 64: Evolution St Louis creates ‘jobs of the future’

This week’s guest on The WTiN Podcast is John Elmuccio, COO and co-founder of Evolution St Louis.

Speaker 1: WTiN
Speaker 2: John Elmuccio

Speaker 1
Hello, my name is Jessica Owen, and I am the Deputy digital editor at WTiN. And this is the WTiN podcast. Join me and my guests every week as we talk about new and interesting innovations from across the textile and apparel industry. Whether it's talking to sustainable startups quizzing experts on the latest research and development, or chatting to companies about their most recent products, you can rest assured that the WTiN podcast will connect you with everything you need to know. This week, I am joined by John Elmuccio, who is the CEO and co founder of the new high tech knitting facility called evolution, St. Louis. In this podcast, John talks about the businesses vision to not just reassure but to create the jobs of the future, how COVID-19 has forced the team to develop more technical textiles, and how there's a possibility of developing a second facility in the near future. Good morning, John. Well, I believe it's morning in St. Louis. Anyway, how are you?

Speaker 2
I'm well, thank you. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1
You're very welcome. So yeah, thank you for joining me, actually, because we're going to be well, you're going to be enlightening us all about the interesting things that you're doing. Get your company evolution, St. Louis. Now we've met before over zoom. But for those who have never heard of the company, can you sort of summarise what you do? Exactly? Yes.

Speaker 2
Well, we are evolution, St. Louis. We are the most technologically advanced flatbed Knitting Factory. Currently in the world. We have the most advanced that the knitting machines available. And we're in the process of building an industry centre here in St. Louis. Right. Interesting.

Speaker 1
So, I mean, we'll come on to that a bit more later. But tell me a bit more about yourself and your co founder, John Lewis, as I know, You've both been involved with their fashion and textile industry for for many years now.

Speaker 2
Well, my partner John Lewis, and I have been in the fashion executives for a long time, we have extensive experience in this sector. Personally, myself, I have worked for Fortune 500 companies. And I've had my own brands over the years. And I also serve as a consultant to private investment firms on global global market trends. In both textiles and fashion. My partner, John Lewis also has a very extensive experience in the fashion community. His background includes Intimate Apparel, along with the accessories and swim washes. And combined, although I hate to say this, we have over 75 years of experience in the industry. 

Speaker 1
Wow, that's impressive. You should be proud to say that, but I can understand what you mean. So considering all this knowledge, then why did you and your co founder decide to start up evolution St. Louis them was Was there a tipping point or frustrations from your previous work? Perhaps?

Speaker 2
Thank you for that question. That's national question. You know, we had a business about seven years ago, that was a licencing model in the apparel space, and we had very recognisable brands. And even with those recognisable brands, we will find it more and more difficult to gain traction in department stores. And we noticed that the fashion industry seemed ripe for disruption. You'll notice a dynamic shift in consumer buying patterns, potentially, with how technology plays a role in our everyday lives. There's a whole generation growing up learning how to buy using their phones. And so as we looked at what was happening without consumer paradigm, we looked at the supply chain that currently exists, where you have to manufacture 15 or 18 months in advance if you're producing in Asia. And we did not think that that was a viable model to support this change in consumer buying patterns. So that was kind of the essence of us starting to think about reimagining the supply chain and building a factory. Yes,

Speaker 1
I have to admit when I mean I studied textiles when I was younger for something we call a levels in the UK. And I remember being taught about the design process in it. It taking like a year to two years to design something and I always thought that was crazy. I didn't How can you I predict what people would like in a couple of years when I don't know, you might not know what you want to wear next month. So I can completely see why you thought this needed a shake up?

Speaker 2
Yes, I think that's that's a very valid point. I mean, you know, from the time people designed their brands, even today that are designing for what's going to be in stores two years from now. And so it's very hard to predict what that consumer wants, at that time, potentially regulation Sumur is buying online, and wants more instant gratification. So the ability to manufacture domestically, with the use of technology allows his brands now to react to consume a bit demand rather than project so far out. Yes.

Speaker 1
Well, I think the last time we spoke, you spoke a lot about that point how the industry needs to be more more responsive. And we also spoke about how it's not just sort of trying to make it more responsive and trying to develop a new supply chain, it's about doing it in an intelligent way. It's not just perhaps reshoring the jobs that have moved to Asia, it's actually reshoring. But doing it in a more technical efficient way. Was that what you were sort of talking about?

Speaker 2
Yes, yes, national points. Actually, you know, this kind of rejects the idea that we're bringing back any jobs from Asia, what we're trying to do is three days, the jobs of the future, people, brands and retailers right now are trying to deal with the same paradigm shift in consumer buying patterns, as we recognise, because they're trying to fish the problem with existing supply chain. And that's really not working. I mean, for years, they've tried to find the faster boat, they've pushed their factories for cheaper prices, you know, all this in an effort to maintain this kind of always on sale mentality, which goes back to their inability to react to demand, but having to possess demand, and having so much excess inventory that needs to be sold on sale. So the ability to Jan, to be able to manufacture domestically, where labour is not a large portion of the horse, and utilising technology was a tremendous advantage. And with flatbed knitting, where our technicians and run a batch of 10 fold machines, compared to a traditional sewing factory with as one person or one sewing machine, really reduces the force of labour, and enhances the ability to make quality products.

Speaker 1
So you've got this idea, then you you and your co founder, John. So tell me about how you went about setting up the company then and why you decided to do this in St. Louis?

Speaker 2
Yes. Again, read your question. You know, we are both in the last business was in New York, in New York in the diamond district, which has been the centre of our industry for many, many years. And, you know, originally my me started talking about this as handset. With very with the put away the idea that we should do this in New York, this was a price of real estate was so exorbitant and the force of living of horse was equally Hi. My partner is from Michigan. And so originally, we spent a lot of time doing some research, we've got pretty far down the road. With the city of Detroit, we had met the mayor that found a business location, and we're ready to go. And I received a phone call from a woman by the name of Susan Sherman, who heads up to St. Louis fashion fund. And she had heard about what our plans were. And I remember her exact words were I heard what you're doing in Detroit, please don't sign anything. And then come visit us in St. Louis. And so, long story short, the city made arrangements for us to visit. What we didn't know at the time was that St. Louis used to be the second largest apparel manufacturing centre in the US and the first largest shoe manufacturing centre in the US. The brown shoe company, which is now phalaris is still based here and is still a very vibrant apparel manufacturing culture here. So the city really embraced us. And there was a tremendous desire to recapture the heritage of apparel, manufacturing and St. Louis. So all those factors entered into play for us one. Yep, you're in St. Louis.

Speaker 1
Right? Well, what a great story. So she stole you and you've never looked back. So fast forward then to today. Tell me about the facility you now have then. I mean, how big is your team? And how many of these flatbed knitting machines have you acquired?

Speaker 2
So we started this facility we are located in the art district of St. Louis and dren centre. Division I mentioned that is that sustainability and, and is a very big part of our mission statement, we won't have wants to just create a scene factory with no emissions. So we've, we always said that we should place our facilities national school or in a neighbourhood and that's exactly where we are. We're down the block from the zoom and a freshman school. So that was a big part of what we wanted to do. We have a 32,000 square foot facility. Mitch started off with over 30 of the latest technology in flatbed knitting machines. And we know we'll have the latest technology because the serial numbers on our machines started 0001. So let's ask them quite well. But we also took advantage in other aspects of technology throughout our manufacturing process. Tip is the in factories there is a process where you have to steam garments, and typically in factories in Asia, there might be 30 or 40 or 50 Steamed stations with individual watches at every one of those stations. Individually steam enjoy enjoyments we were able to bring in computerised, automated steam tables that have embedded conveyor belts was almond Shelburne one, Austin, technology doesn't run and stat. We'd have computerised and automated washers and dryers. So everywhere along the manufacturing process, we took advantage of technology, as well as in our design area.

Speaker 1
Right. Interesting. It sounds very high tech for sure. So can I ask what knitting machines you've gone for? What What brand do you use?

Speaker 2
Yeah, so really, the two leaders in the industry are shimmer session and soul, which is a company out of Germany, they both had the the most advanced technology in 3d and holds almonds, technology. We ultimately worked with stone, because of their flexibility in their machinery. They're able to produce a broad range of products beyond textiles, and also the support we received from the company in Germany in terms of training, and helping us set up the factory and we have an ongoing collaboration which stole out of Germany. 

Speaker 1
Yeah, it's funny. You said they're they're the two main players, aren't they? And everyone seems to have a preference. Everyone favours one over the other. So that's interesting. So tell me what you're using these knitting machines for then? I mean, I think when we last spoke, you said that when you first started the plan was to manufacture apparel, but actually, you've sort of focusing more and more on technical textiles now because of the pandemic. Is that right?

Speaker 2
Yes. Interestingly enough, we were open the facility Asha, Ashley, in February of last year, which is perfect timing during the pendant payment. And, you know, we were actually doing quite a bit of development with fashion brands at that time, and just prior to our opening, but of course, when the pandemic hit, many of the brands and retailers that we were working with kind of went into hiatus and we were forced to China shift gears and use our machines to manufacture the technical textiles and one of the settings we'll test how's that we manufactured? We're mass, we run into mass production of of mass, not medical quality, mass, but mass for the general publishing for EMTs. I should design their own mess, utilising hydrophobic yarns and anti bacterial fibres. So we did quite a bit of that for ourselves and other brands. And we got more involved in washing with it was in the medical industry and knee braces, and those types of products in the home industry, manufacturing blankets, abortion in the shoe industry, doing boot liners and all sorts of random items, which was always in intent of ours, probably in year, two or year three of our plan. What this was at the pandemic, we were kind of forced to celebrate that portion of our business. And right now about 50% of our businesses, technical textiles, and 50%. Is apparel. Right?

Speaker 1
Okay. So tell me then do companies come to you for more research and development and sort of one off productions? Or are you trying to replace maybe their reliance on Asian companies? And they'll actually be coming back to you like, time and time again? What's the plan?

Speaker 2
Yeah, so I think the answer to that question is both depends on the customer, and what's in the job. You know, many brands have been thinking about reimagining their supply chains. Prior to Toven. They all kind of recognised that they needed to think about manufacturing massively, not only because of the reasons I've outlined already, but you know, sustainability is a driving force in the industry right now. It used to be kind of a warm and fuzzy word. But the consumer is China driving that message right now. And forcing brands to have transparency in their supply chain. And since about sustainability, so many brands who have that, in their mission statement have contacted us. And we're working with many of them along with many on suppliers who are in that space. So that was a driving force for our business. There are other brands who like the idea of being able to react to demand. So they're shifting some of their production of their new creative ideas, but they don't have a history of sales into our facility. And then there are the on the technical side, there are people that have ideas that they want to develop for products that maybe never existed before that the rational has to assist with in terms of programming, and product development. So it's a real mesh.

Speaker 1
Yeah, it definitely sounds it's, it's funny, actually, I recently interviewed a network company. I think they're based in New York. And he was talking to me, he was like, Oh, well, we've actually, at the moment they manufacture in Asia. And I said, Would you ever consider doing that in the US closer to home? And he said, Well, we've just heard of this company in St. Louis. And we're quite intrigued by what they do. And I thought, Ah, I bet that's evolution, St. Louis. So I can tell you, there's at least one company out there that wants to see what you guys are about. Yeah. And I know for sure that they're interested in developing knitwear that has never existed before. I mean, I shouldn't say anything, because I'm not sure if they'd want to divulge that information. But there's definitely people who have really interesting imaginations. And I mean, network could well, it has so many applications. Now. I mean, I think one of the things you guys are looking at, at least it says on your website is smart textiles, for example. That sounds interesting. Yeah. 

Speaker 2
So one of the other driving forces that, as the beginning of our thought process to open up this facility, was not only the advances in technology and machinery, but the advances and revolution that's happening right now and joined developments. There are the organs that are that are eco friendly, the rejoins or post consumer, there are yawns that have all that 5g shapeabilities or LG shapeabilities. There's the ability to knit Chev law, for example. So there's all sorts of developments and new revolutions happening in joint development, both on the sustainable side and the the technical textile aspects of it. So the combination of those, the availability of those joins, and the capabilities of our machines is allowing us to knit and create products, as I said earlier, that never existed before and it's been probably one of the most exciting and rewarding parts of what we're doing at the moment. 

Speaker 1
Yes, I can imagine. I mean, are you able to mention any of these exciting products that you're working on at all was

Speaker 2
hand Vaizey obviously we have a number. But, you know, for instance, many athletes might be familiar with the change hate as they were, support, support themselves when they might have an injury or muscle. If you've watched So Lappish potential is a women's volleyball, I know that many of them are wearing that shape. So we're now developing a knee brace, where we're emulating the features of that change shape within a knee brace, so that it can support the knee and, and without the use of the tape and be reusable as an example. Okay,

Speaker 1
interesting, I'll have to, you know, start watching the Olympics, perhaps in years to come and they'll all be wearing those instead. So, I mean, we've talked a lot about the pandemic already. And when we last spoke, you said that this has actually affected your company in other ways. So for example, you said that hiring people has been a bit of a challenge, even though you know, in other ways, you've been able to adjust quite well. So are you able to sort of tell me a bit more about that?

Speaker 2
Yes. So the question was, as I said, we opened our business in February, March, the pandemic hit, we had plans to have a team of engineers from stolen Germany, come to the US and spend an extended period of time here with us. Of course, that was put on hold. For a while, we've been able to sense the advantage of having virtual training sessions for people. But that was one of the obstacles that we faced early on. But also, you know, because of AI technology being so new, there is not a pool of lots of talent for some of the roles that we need to fill, so that we need to fulfil those roles outside of the city of St. Louis. In fact, we've hired a programme from the UK, and one from from Canada as a result, and we're in the process of looking at some other people from out of state. But you know, the ability to bring them in for interviews, and that was a problem during the pandemic. But on the positive side, it's, it's allowed us to focus on some of the other roles here, and what's happening right now, a year in we're up to almost 30 people in our company, while and always having 50 By the end of this year. So we're quite proud of being able to do that during the pandemic. 

Speaker 1
Yeah, you should be. I mean, going back to that point, you said about finding the right skilled people is this to do with sort of the knitwear engineers or people who fully understand the machines and how they work?

Speaker 2
Yeah, there are two main roles that fall into that category zero is a new group of technicians that actually know the machines run the machines, know how to repair them, if they break down, they'll have have an issue. But the most critical role is all programmers. You know, technology, as I said, plays a part in every role, what we do. So even our design process is digital. We work with brands, who then attach all paths from them. Traditionally, you know, factories would create patterns and type fabrics and put it together. We don't do any of that we review the Check PASS, we evaluate all the information in the test passed, we worked with our programmers, they translate the information from those test pass into showed that the machine can run. So this machine can actually manufacture those samples and garments, which saves a lot of wasted time and sampling, but also makes for a very, very efficient products and a very consistent quality product. So that role of programming is a very specific role. And even more specific, the programme platform for these machines is proprietary to this machine. So that's a very specific shill.

Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, it sounds so complicated, it goes straight over my head anyway. I mean, do you think in future we will see more skilled workers coming up perhaps from university? I mean, do you know if University syllabus is a sort of, you know, accounting for all these technological developments,

Speaker 2
so you have room for question. Then I said, I said earlier that, you know, we wanted to talk to St. Louis to build an industry sector. My partner and I was smiling enough. I sent to realise that we should not do that on our own. So we embraced having organisation from the from that or does the St. Louis fashion fund help us? We've embraced that job having federal A federal local and, and state assistance. But we also embrace that, that easy Jewish communities. And we're working with universities like Wash U, like 10. State, which actually teaches, and one plus programming, which is the programming for machines. We're working with other universities to help bridge racism so that we can train students for the jobs that we're creating for the future. Well,

Speaker 1
that sounds like a brilliant initiative. I mean, these knitting machines are so expensive, and perhaps not every university or pupil has access to them. And it sounds like you need got tonnes of time to get used to them and figure them out. So that's great.

Speaker 2
Yes, I'll just add, we've had one of the professors from 10 stated actually spend the summer here so that she should learn in real time what it was like to watch in a manufacturing environment with his machines, so that she could go back and impart that information to her students. And in fact, we, we brought in two of her students as interns that we've hired. So we're already down the road in that process. 

Speaker 1
So I know the company hasn't been established for too long. But what's the feedback been like then from the local people and brands? And you know, the community? I mean, you said there that clearly things are working out well with them in terms of, you know, education, but I mean, what about these local people? And the woman who brought you into St. Louis, what's everyone been saying about the company? 

Speaker 2
Well, St. Louis has been great. We've had tremendous support, as I said, from St. Louis fashion, fun, fun, fun, the St. Louis Development Corporation from the mayor's office, from local investors. As I said, St. Louis is a town that very proud of their apparel heritage, and very soon to recapture that heritage and revitalise it. So, we've had read support and, and read interest from all of those people. 

Speaker 1
Oh, well, that's good to hear. And I mean, as you said earlier, I love the fact that you've gone and, you know, centred the business in the community, because often manufacturing sites and, you know, industrial places, they're out of town, aren't they, you don't really ever come by them. So it's great that people can see exactly what you're doing and, you know, walk past you perhaps every day. And you know, remember you're there and get inspired by sort of what you've done.

Speaker 2
Yeah. So we're proud of that. And as I said, you know, sustainability and seen energy are a big part of our mission statement. So it was important for us to miss this and try to have a showcase for what apparel manufacturing should be, not what it is. And that was one of the other reasons that we chose grant centre, the district has a place to put the factory.

Speaker 1
Now unfortunately, John, we're sort of running out of time. But before we wrap up today's podcast, are you able to tell me about any plans that you have moving forwards any inside information as to what the next steps are for evolution, St. Louis,

Speaker 2
while we're still navigating the pandemic. So we're so focused on growth here. As I mentioned, it's time to be celebrated. We're already planning on bringing in another 20 machines into this facility, which we hope to have into this facility by the end of this year. So we'll have over 50 machines in this facility. And, you know, we're thinking about and talking to the city about the possibility of a session facility down the road.

Speaker 1
Right. So potentially a lot going on in your future, then.

Speaker 2
Yes, we're very excited. 

Speaker 1
Yes, I can imagine. Well, I mean, John, it's been a pleasure to speak with you again, and well, I wish you all the best and the rest of the team evolution, St. Louis, and it'd be great to see if you expand later down the line. It sounds like you've got a lot to look forward to

Speaker 2
keep an eye on us. We'll let you know. Thanks for your time.